How good/bad is HxH art really?
Hunter x Hunter
inconsistent, unorganized and really bad as sequential art. there are more hentai that take advantage of the paneling for conveying an interesting resolution. I just don't know why the mangaka just didn't wrote a novel instead.
>take advantage of the paneling for conveying an interesting resolution
Honestly don't even know how to judge good paneling. I usually just go by creativity. Can you educate me and name an example?
>C-tier.
it truly depends on what's needed, and all art is really dependent on literature, but all good sequential art has in common not only clear readability and simplification through composition, but also certain sense of timing and how small or big paneling suggest that to the viewer.
Almost, C-Tier would just be average but the actual standout art is great therefor B-Tier would be more appropriate.
It's doodles sometimes yeah, though I don't think that makes it bad.
that isn't bad
>but also certain sense of timing and how small or big paneling suggest that to the viewer
I always liked the paneling in this scene.
jojo's does everything that hxh does but better, but its not only due to better paneling and artistic superiority, it's also paired with better writing and presentation of its combats.
The reason why hxh doesn't truly shines is an overall result that also is expressed on its art. Its not particularly well written neither presented, abuses over-exposition through dialogue while a lot of things could be explained visually.
A very good example of a fight written and narrated through sequential art you can find it here: mangafast.net
>better writing
Definitely not.
example
It's insane that you could criticise anyone for "over-exposition" and then praise Fukumoto in the same breath.
>abuses over-exposition through dialogue while a lot of things could be explained visually
It's exposition yes but at least what is talked about is interesting. There is no excuse for the lack of art in the exposition though.
¿why not? there is flaws in jojo's and even asspulls, but there is in hxh too. Araki is by far more creative in the presentation of its fights, not to mention how a lot of them are thought in space, while in a vast amount of hxh just occur in blank abstract spaces with no real purpose more than saving time or make characters and their actions stand-out.
>Araki is by far more creative in the presentation of its fights
Of course, but I am not really talking about the writing in the fight scenes. I was more talking about actual narrative and character writing.
It's good when he tries. Not breathtaking or anything but good. Of course when he just scribbles it looks awful.
fukumoto's narrative its highly stylized and tends to dive really deep in the characters thoughts and present them as the current strategy to facilitate the viewer understanding of gambles, you cant really make it work equally if we re talking about fights. Also if the rhythm of certain events are dense in abstract exposition, they re used to do social commentaries, highlight tension, or be analogies.
>I was more talking about actual narrative and character writing.
you should check out the link i posted then. I consider it a very well balanced narrative between action and character's psychology analysis.
I will thanks user!
It looks like shit, considering YYH looks fine it seems he stopped caring at some point.
that is bad
>¿
He is supposed to look all wrinkled and fucked up the art conveys that well.
it conveys it's shit art
did you read it?
youtu.be
It's fine. It ranges from decent to amazing at times. It is indeed inconsistent but it's by design. Togashi purposely avoids sticking up to just one artstyle, but it's never bad (with the exception of one experimental chapter).
I invited anyone to pick a random chapter and see it for themselves. The paneling is great, I don't even know how this myth of the paneling being bad started.
manga4life.com
You are either just repeating a myth you read on the internet, or you are pulling this straight out of your ass.
>The paneling is great
>Chapter 382
>Multiple pages of just horizontal panels from the left end to right end stacked on top of one another
>pic related
I like HxH but the paneling isn't anything remarkable.
I think if it would have kept at a decent pace and ended a few years ago it would be regarded as a pretty decent work overall.
The world is cool, the characters are interesting, and I think each main arc really stands out.
That being said the hiatuses suck, realistically it probably won’t finish, and we’ve been at the beginning of what’s been hinted at to be a long and major arc that turns the whole world upside down for years now with no payoffs for it.
I personally liked yu yu hakushi more but that series also suffered from him trying to get it finished and he cut out like 75% of the final arc which could have been the most interesting one.
> cherrypicked one page in one chapter and the paneling is still fine
> literally nothing wrong with pic related
> the chapter still offers good variety on paneling without ever being confusing
Funny a lot of what you said can also be said about Berserk. Rereading it I noticed how great the boat ride is, while before it took nine goddamn years and made me dread every new chapter release because I knew it wouldn't actually be any progress. Same fate goes for HxH.
>cherrypicked one page
alright have another
>literally nothing wrong with pic related
Yeah sure nothing wrong with it, just very bland and boring. I only said that isn't remarkable, while you claimed the paneling was great without offering an example of your own.
>that series also suffered from him trying to get it finished and he cut out like 75% of the final arc which could have been the most interesting one.
To be fair Togashi wanted to finish the manga way before that point, but the editors forced him to keep writing.
Is YYH still worth reading despite that? I don't see what sets it apart from most other works.
It’s definitely similar but at least with berserk even after a long wait at least the chapter has good art and the plot does progress.
For hxh some of the more recent chapters have looked like a bad web comic.
The whole dark continent arc is kind of like of Berserk had the Faerie Queen say “oh the eclipse and the god hand? They’re just a rain drop in the ocean. Actually our whole world is a small island and we have to go out into the rest of what’s outside to save the day. Let me introduce you to even bigger big bads than the god hand and tell you about this whole new magic system right away” and then you don’t get any new chapters after that.
Yu Yu Hakusho is one of the few instances where the anime is a superior experience to the manga. It looks great, and has some really cool and experimental animation/ direction from Akiyuki Shibo.
It has great OP, ED's and OST.
Almost no filler (or none at all), and they provided better closure in the final arc where Togashi really rushed things.
>experimental animation
Oh god, this doesn't sound good user.
I think it’s worth a read/watch. It’s kind dated and it has some obvious flaws but it makes up for that by having a strong main cast. The main 4 characters are all fleshed out and they all develop pretty well with each arc.
My 2 complaints are
1. The last arc was lacking a lot and should have been a war not a tournament.
2. I think the series could have benefitted more from some fluff. Smaller world building arcs/cases would have been great.
If you can look past those you should read/watch it
pure trash
youtu.be
In this case it's really good, I promise you.
Different user but it’s actually pretty solid.
A lot of it is used to show off cool attacks/events.
One distinct example I know is when a character pretty much pulls a darkness dragon out of hell and the style changes to really dark, flashy, inconsistent, and warped which really makes the move seem special:frightening
it's bad. empty pages and no backgrounds aside, togashi frequently attempts pretentious compositions that are beyond his skill as an artist. he then proceeds to execute them in the most lazy, sloppy way possible. plus his character designs are phoned in, with few exceptions.
Ok, sold. Damn that's just great.
>pretentious compositions that are beyond his skill as an artist
>beyond his skill as an artist
>pretentious compositions
Fucking what
This has been done many times since then probably but one of my favorite parts of YYH is that even if the current plot is trying to save the world or whatever, all Yusuke wants (and most "enemies" to be fair) is a good and fun fight.
Most of the time you can tell the characters are genuinely enjoying the battles even if their lives are on the line.
>pretentious compositions that are beyond his skill as an artist
this is basically the drawings I made as a kid but with proper shading
Beware of the slow start, though. It gets good once the Dark Tournament starts, and then it's from good to great until the end.
Jesus why do the characters stand out so much from the background.
It varies. Some great, some terrible. Togashi is basically crippled though which really accounts for the highs and lows.
Did he not work with any assistants that could have helped him fix any lackluster or rushed work, or did he just not care?
Tracing vs drawn by hand, it's a Togashi classic.
This is from the chapter with the shit paneling and lo and behold it's the same garbage paneling only with a two page spread.
Here's an example. There are many others too.
My post was adressing those who say the paneling is bad. I think the burden is on them to prove how it is bad. It's also far from being bland.
As I said, there's great variety without ever being confusing.
What makes paneling great is the combination of understandability and creativity, and that HxH has to spare.
>understandability
Why would this ever be worth praise? If the reader is to retarded to know how read from top right to bottom left than the reader is at fault.
Fake news, faggot. That's from when Togashi got ill and since there wasn't hiatus at the time, JUMP decided to publish the chapter while still incomplete.
The art is finished in the volumes, and this is a purposely cartoonish scene.
What is it about HxH that makes people who have never read it so obsessed with it?
How does this disprove if it was traced or not? especially this one
wow he changed the shading a bit, completely different things sorry
>purposely cartoonish scene.
literally all of hxh looks like that
Is there a point you can stop watching the show and still be satisfied before it goes to shit?
I don't even know how your pic relates to what you are saying. None of the drawings in your pic look cartoonish.
what tracing retard, it's obvious 3D background with filters on it
I liked all of it personally but the Dark Tournament Arc is definitely the peak, so up to and including episode 66.
>obvious 3D background with filters
wow so even worse than tracing he didn't draw at all
I can't imagine Togashi was too happy with being forced to continue, considering entirety of "o my demon bloodline" and bad powercreep in final arc comes from that. Yusuke was supposed to lose and then his friends would go fight Enma to revive him.
Why did he suddenly forget how to draw?
>muh back
user....... that's extremely common in manga, and it doesn't even matter since backgrounds are assistants' job
Not him but here it actually looks good. The HxH example is terrible.
>cartoonish
>that's extremely common in manga
that doesn't make it any better
>and it doesn't even matter
oh so you don't give a shit
Now I see what meant with pretentious composition
I gotta say his paneling has always been top-notch.
his art was never bad but it's common circlejerk among crossboarders to claim that all hxh art is bad but all yyh art is good when it's same shit polished up
Chapter Black, its definitely not as good as the Dark Tournament but it's still worth checking out. The last arc, Three Kings Saga. starts interesting and well enough, but editor-kun thought doing a second tournament arc would be a good way to end the series. The result is lots of episodes of build up get thrown out the window so some retards can hit each other with hardly any emotional weight behind it. If you do watch YYH do yourself a favor and pretend it doesn't exist.
>it's same shit polished up
YYH came way before HxH, are you admitting he got worse over time?
It never goes to shit. The last arc is rushed, but it's not bad by any standards. Personally it's my favorite, and it wraps the story in a very nice way.
>The result is lots of episodes of build up get thrown out the window so some retards can hit each other with hardly any emotional weight behind it.
It was pretty funny in the manga.
Opposite.
because the background is stock art
another hacky thing togashi does is use stock artwork when he can't be bothered to draw things
>hunterkeks accept this
Fucked in the head, all of them.
This. Absolutely based, Togashibro.
Yeah normally boring/generic things are left for assistants to draw. But Togashi is such a conceited faggot that he refuses to hire assistants so you get this.
Cope. The rare parts of HXH and YYH that look good are drawn by Naoko.
You know he met her after YYH, right?
Cope and seethe. Your favorite series will never be better than HxH.
Here.
>another hacky thing togashi does is use stock artwork when he can't be bothered to draw things
Like almost every other mangaka that exists.
>everyone does this
>doesn't provide a single example
no published mangaka does this. it's a crutch for inexperienced artists to model things off of. for a veteran manga artist to resort to this is embarassing
The fact that people think Togashi's art is bad goes to show the extreme low level of criticism in this board. It genuinely is baffling that people can't understand what makes good paneling flow and narrative, or how a drawing being rough or not using tones doesn't mean it's bad.
Togashi is probably the most complex of all Shonen artists. His style is by far the most heterogenous and experimental out there. His characters can go from extremely cartoony to realistic in the span of two pages and yet it still doesn't break the immersion because it works in the atmosphere of the story. He also has an instantly recognizable style despite not having a predefined character design archetype like Toriyama or Kubo for example.
Bad, why aren't the characters stopping and explaining to the reader in meticulous and unnecessary detail how each of their abilities work? I can't get inmersed like this. Toyama is a hack.
It's funny how you are talking like it's a fact that Togashi uses stock artwork when you just invented this myth out of thin air, like, 10 mins ago.
This. I need everything autistically explained to me at all times in the form of a list, including things that could have been shown in the art, things that I already know, and things that may not actually happen.
216704313
>this completely obvious thing isn't really happening
holy fucking cope. not even worth a (you)
Kek
It just goes to show, as long as you have good, solid coreography, pseudoshit like "strategies" and "plans" don't matter in the slightest for a good fight.
Not to mention Togashi is revered by fellow mangaka like a God. Kishimoto, Sui Ishida, Tadatoshi Fujimaki, among others, praise his art and have him as their declared biggest inspiration.
Kishimoto kept volumes of Togashi's works by his deck throughout Naruto's run because he was a reference in angles and facial expressions. Drawing Togashi's characters while at school was how Sui Ishida first started drawing.
Then we also have KNY's and JJK's authors who have him (alongside Kubo) as their biggest inspiration.
But no, neet user who has never drawed anything is his life can confidently affirm that he's a hack.
Why even is this series on a hiatus?
Does anyone even know?
216704715
>straight up lying to defend his children's comic to strangers
lmao hxhfags are the worst. most hated fanbased on Dab Forums
>will never be better
We'll never know since HxH won't get an ending.
Sailor Moon makes too much money so he doesn't need to work.
True. "Muh endless strategizing" is just an excuse for Togashi to not have to draw much, instead filling page after page with
>"If he does [A] I should do [B]"
>"Let's hope the worst case scenario, [C], doesn't happen."
>C happens
>hxhfag brainlet's mind is blown
>thinks this is the greatest subversive work of art he has ever seen
Really bad. Togashi is either extremely slow which is why most of his art is garbage, or extremely lazy. Bottom line is most of HxH looks like scribbles. His anatomy is great though but it's not enough to save a manga
>b-but look at these few pages where he saw effort!
Yeah that's great but that's an exception not a rule when it comes to HxH
His original plan was to do an all out war and make it the longest arc in the series.
Then his health went downhill and he thought it would be easier and better to just end it faster.
Idk how much his back problems really affect him or if it’s mostly mental but that’s the reasoning he gives
Yeah the demon bloodline thing did come out of nowhere. It did give us an excuse to explore the demon world though so I chalk it up to a net positive. Could have been much much better though
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not true. Closing your ears and pretending it's a lie won't change reality.
Facts don't care about your feelings, faggot.
fights in baki have good choreography and good strategy.
YYH and HxH probably make more money than Sailor Moon. They sold 3 times as much and have 2 massively popular anime.
Sailor Moon surely earns a lot in merchandising, but it's not like Togashi is only rich because of his wife's money.
>Bottom line is most of HxH looks like scribbles
You never read the manga. Go on, finds those scribbles. And beware that you said that most of the manga is like that, cherrypicking 1 page won't help your case.
manga4life.com
Sometimes it looks good, sometimes looks really bad, it's average in the art department.
Toriyama took no breaks, did designs for CT and DQ on the side and still put out better artwork than togashi who has months to draw chapters
216706564
>dude trust me everyone is sucking togashi's dick like I am. take my word for it because I won't provide no sources, of course
this is just sad now
...
Why are you so afraid of giving him (You)s? Nobody cares.
>Hacks inspired by another hack
News at 11. NEXT.
And Togashi is inspired by Toriyama, so what does that say about pic related?
Yes, Toriyama is a better artist than Togashi. And 99% of mangaka for that matter. Has anyone ever said or thought otherwise?Because even Togashi would agree with that Toriyama is a better artist.
But as authors they are clearly not on the same level. Togashi is leagues above Toriyama (and 99% of mangaka) when it comes to writing, and that's what makes his manga good.
a genius can inspire a hack, but a hack can only inspire another hack
That Toriyama is the GOAT, and DB is a good manga unlike HxH which is just another uninspired shonen manga that is only good if you haven't read enough shonenshit.
The thing is that Togashi is a mangaka who doesn't actually enjoy drawing for fun (which is something most great mangaka do), and thus even if he knows how good art is supposed to look, he usually doesn' put much effort in it EXCEPT when he is particularly excited about a scene.
You can clearly gleem this from some of his interviews, as well as his characterization in Bakuman.
Toriyama is a genius artist, but (almost declared) shit writer. He could write good comedies, but as soon as he tried to write something more serious, it was clearly out of his capacities.
So nobody really knows and the author doesn't give a fuck about the series?
toriyama's writing is fine, even if not spectacular. far better than togashi. at least toriyama got the most basic of basics of shonenshit right: make a protagonist that is the actual protagonist. one that the author enjoys writing and that the readers enjoy watching, and make the story about him.
togashi couldn't get that right, which is why HxH's plot is a directionless clusterfuck.
it's a combination of what said, the author has too much money and is married to the author of Sailor Moon
BUT there is also the following:
>1998
>Dragon Ball has ended
>Slam Dunk has ended
>Kenshin ending soon
>Naruto hasn't started
>One Piece hasn't hit its stride yet
>WSJ is DESPERATE for a new hit series
>calls up Togashi
>Togashi: "O MY ACHING BACK!"
>he presents to them an insane, unprecedented contract, that no other author has, or will have ever again: creator owned characters, a break whenever he wants, a hiatus whenever he wants, guaranteed position in the magazine for life even if he doesn't submit an actual manga chapter for years
>they cuck out and sign it
>HiatusXHiatus is born
so yeah HXH is still technically "serialized" but it really isn't
But that is wrong. Togashi mentions "I won't let myself be cancelled" at some point in the Hunter Exam, si he most definitely can get axed. He does own the copyrights, but other authors like the Shaman King guy own their copyrights too.
>can't get cancelled while on hiatus
>"I'll just always be on hiatus then"
I think you're refering to this, but he never mentions cancellation. I don't think it has ever crossed his mind.
JUMP can decide to stop publishing HxH, but they can't 'cancel' it. He could still take the series elsewhere. But JUMP would never do that, HxH is a goldmine.
They have the privilege of publishing HxH, not the opposite.
Doesn't matter whether Togashi is a better author or not. I can read a book that deals with the same themes Togashi superficially introduces in his manga that are much better written and have less of an immature misanthropy bent on them (Confucianism, Nietzsche and Pascal), with the added benefit of not having to suffer through Togashi's disgusting shit art and his exposition dumps while I enjoy them.
On the other hand, I know what I'm getting with DB and I can name very few manga that are comparable to it on a technical level. Toriyama added dialogue where there needs to be and Dragon Ball is one of the few manga that has virtually no exposition dumps because Toriyama perfectly conveyed his characters' thoughts and feelings through his art. Togashi doesn't understand that, "brevity is the soul of wit." If your abilities requires over ten words to explain, you know your manga sucks. Even Araki has the decency to not assume his readers are bunch of mouth-breathing morons who needs to be spoon-fed.
>Epitaph: Forecasts the future, up to 10 seconds
>King Crimson: Skips time, up to 10 seconds