> 30 yrs old > Software engineer > Didn't finish school because of bad grades (was obsessed with side-project) > Got jobs for 8 years that I wasn't qualified for > Terminated from all but one because of performance > Just got informed I'll be getting let go of my current job at the end of this month. > I don't want to accept another job and be the worst employee at the company. > I have 70k in crypto that I was hoping to use for something useful.
What do Dab Forums?
At this point, I don't even care about what's most efficient cost-wise. I'm just tired of being the worst employee at every company I go to because I'm spending every waking minute outside of my job reading books and researching topics to fill in missing knowledge (that I still haven't fully filled-in after 8 years). I've tried the whole "Just wing it until you make it" and all it has done has been to create a scenario where a handful of job recruiters want to routinely give me jobs I'm going to get terminated from again because I never finished learning my fundamentals.
I could use my crypto money to go to school full-time at a community college for lower-division credits, but I'd be burning up my savings. I'd still have to transfer to a university and find some way to get a personal private loan of some kind. I don't have the option for a parent plus loan either. Alternatively, there is a CC near me that does offer a bachelor's in computer science.
I have a somewhat good idea of everything I need to fill-in and I have nearly all of the books. In-principle, I might be able to just self-teach myself all of my concepts if I just gave myself a couple months of dedicated study. But I wouldn't emerge with a credential of any kind unless I were to make demo applications on a portfolio website (which I might be able to do). I could additionally try to grab certificates from Coursera.
>But I wouldn't emerge with a credential of any kind unless I were to make demo applications on a portfolio website Do you need to get a credential of some kind? It sounds like you'll be able to find work regardless.
Brody Rogers
>Do you need to get a credential of some kind? It sounds like you'll be able to find work regardless. The credential would honestly just make me feel less paranoid and give me confidence by making A's again.
The problem is that I can find work as-is right now, but I'm just tired of being the worst employee at every job and continually getting let go over performance (which is highly triggered by my education/fundamentals gaps).
Specific fundamentals I'm missing:
Stuff I could get at a CC: - Data Structures (I've implemented all but a couple search trees and graphs) - Algorithms (I've implemented all except graph algorithms) - Calculus III - Differential Equations - Discrete Mathematics - Physics I (motion dynamics, constraint-based physics) - Physics II (waves, optics, thermodynamics) - Image Processing
Stuff I either have to self-teach or take at a university: - Curves and Surfaces (bezier, hermite, NURBS curves and surfaces) - Computer Architecture (OS, low-level programming) - Computer Graphics (lighting, shadows, skeletal animation, raytracing) - Weak AI (navigation, steering behaviors, FSMs) - Working with Git in the command line (I've worked with Git for multiple years and problems when rebasing is still a major problem for me at work)
Parker Barnes
Would it be feasible for you to do something skilled blue collar? Would you be able to be your own boss? On the other hand, what about being a networks guy?
Wyatt Carter
>Would it be feasible for you to do something skilled blue collar? Would you be able to be your own boss? On the other hand, what about being a networks guy? No
Camden Sanchez
you've been out in the workforce for roughly 10 years. how have you not managed to acquire the missing skills through osmosis? all of these things can be acquired through a bit of self study, and if you suspected their absence was hindering you in your job you *should* have been brushing up on them. the fact that you haven't been doing this, combined with your issues in university, tells me that you've probably got some more significant underlying issue that you're not telling us.
Jackson Miller
You won't do computer networking but you get fired from the jobs you get hired for? Is computer networking that bad?
Connor Mitchell
>you've been out in the workforce for roughly 10 years. how have you not managed to acquire the missing skills through osmosis? Because the way jobs work is that they put you in a small box and get mad when you try to get out of it. However, those underlying fundamentals would be what I need to 1. do well in that box and 2. get out of the crappy box they put me in (I have always wanted to do rendering engineering instead of the generalist stuff they give me).
> the fact that you haven't been doing this, combined with your issues in university, tells me that you've probably got some more significant underlying issue that you're not telling us. Not a bad observation. I've had an obsession with wanting to make a game project while in college and outside which has never materialized and has monopolized my attention budget. Meaning, time I could have used in my freetime to fill in those fundamentals was occupied by me trying to make some game that never materialized (this was also the case in college).
There's the idea of me just living on some of my savings for a couple months working on this game project (it could serve as a portfolio piece for rendering engineering) just so at the bare-minimum, I get it out of my system and learn the things I've wanted to learn. I'm not concerned about "never finishing" because the parameters for the game are pretty simplistic and I've narrowed down to a non-expanding minimum spec that would creatively fulfill me.
Jeremiah Carter
Wow all of these people talking about how hard it is to get a job and somehow you've had that many when you don't have a degree and you suck at what you do. How'd that happen?
Nolan Cook
It's not hard to get a job
Xavier Parker
Then why are there so many people claiming they sent out 200 resumes and didn't get any call backs? are they just lying?
Gabriel Carter
I come across more confident and skilled than I actually am, which gets me into trouble.
Jaxson Morgan
digitally submitting a generic resume is the least likely way to yield results
Ayden Smith
Let's see,
>30 years old >College dropout >Obsessive personality inhibits focus on goals >Repeated terminations >Thinks crypto will save him
So you're a college dropout with a penchant for studying flights of fancy? No kid, let me tell you something that I have as a 29 year old making 140K per year and has NEVER been fired, you're an unemployable loser. and as suggested, I suspect your ability to remain at a job is because of something you are unwilling, or more likely unable to tell us, because you are not aware that you likely a huge asshole. So, before you quip back with some asshole remark in a vain attempt to defend yourself, think hard, because alternatively, you can elect to list exactly the reasons you were terminated and I will either translate them or offer you legitimate self improvement.
> I might be able to just self-teach myself all of my concepts if I just gave myself a couple months of dedicated study. But I wouldn't emerge with a credential of any kind unless I were to make demo applications on a portfolio website (which I might be able to do). I could additionally try to grab certificates from Coursera.
And they'd be fucking worthless. A college degree shows that you are capable of critical thinking and balanced learning, task prioritization, and most importantly, that can you can remained disciplined to follow through with something to the end. You sitting and reading books doesn't show that, even if you somehow prove yourself to smarter than the college kid in an interview.
>A college degree shows that you are capable of blablah it used to. now it just proves that you have a college loan and enough discipline to occasionally show up for classes. which minimum apparently OP cant even meet.
Ryder Sullivan
The user is right.
Lincoln Thomas
This seems about right. Just a straight "No" here
OP, you're a fuckin faggot.
Nathan Fisher
See So if you’re saying I’m an unemployable loser, and I’m sharing the above information, what’s your suggestion for me outside of saying there’s no hope for me?
Matthew Diaz
I suppose it shows you can take on debt, but while you jest, almost all of my employees who completed college are more disciplined and can generally multitask and handle projects and situations better than people who don't, which is why they don't last as long. Ask literally any HR person who hires for a nice white collar company.
Stop being like that, idiot. That's one of the worst things you can do as an employee. If that's why you're getting fired, that also means your boss asked you to do something you didn't know how to do and you lied, presumably to save face. Well, guess what, your manager goes to a meeting and relays his delegation efforts on a project to leadership and they hold him accountable. So when you go home, panic, study some concepts and then come back and fuck it up, guess what? you made yourself look bad, you made your manager embarrassed and made him look stupid in front of leadership, and now he has to prove he's a good manager. So your managers have probably started finding little bullshit items to write you up for until they were rid of you. Just admit when you need help. It's more honorable and saves people trouble.
As far as exact reasons for being terminated, it’s always in-terms of not meeting expectations. Not submitting work quickly enough. I had some issues with people skills that I improved (which were an issue at a previous job) but it’s not a bad idea to assume they could always be better.
Angel Watson
>Just admit when you need help. It's more honorable and saves people trouble. I admit I need help when I’m at work and I don’t pretend I know things that I don’t. It’s just that I specifically come across confident during interviews and get placed in positions that are a mismatch of ability.
Daniel Campbell
>Because the way jobs work is that they put you in a small box and get mad when you try to get out of it. However, those underlying fundamentals would be what I need to 1. do well in that box and 2. get out of the crappy box they put me in (I have always wanted to do rendering engineering instead of the generalist stuff they give me).
Lol, are you fucking serious right now? How fucking delusional are you? That's why job descriptions exist, Captain Retard. They outline the overall scope of the duties you will do as an employee. This has to be bait, I can't imagine somebody being literally this stupid. Do I really need to explain to you why your superiors got mad at you when they handed you a task and you
A: Attempted to violate boundaries and scope of a project B: Decided to do something else because it was more interesting to you?
Yeah, dumbass, they'd get mad. I hired you to do Task A as an Engineer, not go to HR and do Task B because it was more interesting to you. You have the same problem with school and books. It's a failure to apply yourself to a task, even if it is displeasing, another thing college teaches a person.
> I've had an obsession with wanting to make a game project while in college and outside which has never materialized and has monopolized my attention budget
Yeah, and your obsession caused you to drop out of college, which again, shows an inability to prioritize tasks. A reasonable person would ensure they were successful in college unless a significant life event occurred that prevented attending, because school is a serious expensive commitment. You need to learn how to balance your life. I am writing a few novels and short stories, but I don't let them monopolize my time. I would LOVE to waste my days finishing them, but a bitch got bills to pay and I had to attend school, so I made balance in my life. Your obsession was inexcusable. You absolutely could have made progress without hurting your education.
These two go hand and hand, and yet it's evident you are too stupid to see how they connect. You lied to a company about your skillset and tried faking it till you made it. Problem is, when the rubber actually met the road at the job, they realized you were a con and you were useless.
>I admit I need help when I’m at work and I don’t pretend I know things that I don’t.
Do you really though? If you would lie in an interview, you will lie at work to save face. You're not the first person who has tried to piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. Find a job you can do confidently, and that you can grow into.
Maybe you're just not smart enough for the work you're trying to do, or you need adderall or something so you can focus. Your story doesn't add up and it feels like important details are missing. It's also bizarre that you listed a bunch of random STEM classes that have nothing to do with normal software engineering, and presented them as "holes in your competency" or something. What kind of work are you doing and where are your points of failure?
William Wright
What kind of jobs do you work where you need all this knowledge? Most of the things you listed will not be used in most dev jobs, let alone ALL OF THOSE IN A SINGLE JOB.
Unless you're making a game engine as a one-man-team or something I guess.
Dominic Carter
So what do you recommend I do in my situation?
Return to school? Get another job I'm likely to get removed from as a result of lacking fundamentals and struggling to prioritize because I feel like I'm lacking skills?
It's clear prioritization is a problem and I have to change how I look at my own game. You're right that I could have made progress without hurting my education and a lot of that had to do with me feeling pressured to apply myself toward my project at the expense of my grades (I took the advice of a classmate who actually got a job at my dream company but it was a terrible idea, he also stopped working there a long time ago, likely for problems similar to mine).
I kind of wish I didn't feel so drawn to it. I wonder if I could "get it out of my system" if I worked on it in isolation, but I expect the real solution is to learn to live with it on the backburner but... I've tried that in the past and years will go by without any progress on the project and it messes with me. But then you'll say "How do years go by when you don't get your project done?" Well, I just don't get my work done.
A lot of it has to do with me constantly feeling like I'm missing skills (that are not clearly relevant or not for my task) that I didn't get in my degree because not finishing that degree makes me feel like I'm inferior/lesser and I would do anything to correct that problem.
It might honestly be the right thing for me to go back to school (provided I get good grades as well) just for me to get past the mental block of "I didn't finish all my courses, I'm missing something that the rest of my peers have."
Honestly I kind of don't care about getting scammed on tuition or anything like that. I just want to prove that, as you said, I can prioritize and finish my work, but also move past this mental block that I'm an illegitimate engineer because I didn't finish my curriculum.
(1/2)
Brody Sanders
If that means I can't buy a house or have a big family, then I think it means I can at least die happy knowing I could prioritize and finish something.
2/2
Blake Scott
I have never lied in a interview and never lied about knowing things I don't.
The issue is that I take too long to complete my work because of bad prioritization. Which is something an interview doesn't assess and why I fall through the cracks.
Luke Ward
This kind of reminds me of myself to a lesser degree. I graduated with a non-STEM degree, worked at an easy job I didn't like, then somehow got hired by a software company for a role that required regularly coding in SQL and C# (I knew neither). I found out later that they hired me hastily so that they could fire another guy who wasn't working out.
I didn't actually get fired and worked at the place for two years (I did get moved around a lot though). Eventually I got tired of it and quit to go work in a non-technical finance role at a different company, I had never actually wanted to work in tech in the first place, I just wanted out of my original job.
But during this whole thing all these tech recruiters were reaching out to me on LinkedIn and I was like "LOL I literally have none of the technical qualifications needed for any of these jobs".
Dude, I'm trying to help you by giving you the coming to Jesus talk, and it looks like it's hitting you now.
The best option for a person in your shoes would be going back to school for a Bachelor's Degree in a field you have experience in, so yes, Engineering or Software Engineering is a good fit for you. It is the path of least resistance that you can finish the quickest, and your experience in the field can translate into school projects and papers. Find a school that has the best cost/acceptance of transferability. If you have to pay a few bucks more to have more classes transfer, so be it.
Prioritization and distractedness is absolutely your problem based on the information you provided me, you may have undiagnosed ADHD. Seek a licensed medical professional for it, preferably a psychiatrist. You probably won't take Ritalin, but some medication , CBT, and therapy may improve your mental state, along with exercises to help you cope and function better. One of my employees has Adult ADHD, takes clonidine or something, fucking miracle drug, night and day for him.
That being said, passions are never something you should abandon. Your game is not a worthless project to be discarded, just like my Novels are treasures I would defend. Absolutely make your game, but don't let the "Dragon of Temptation/Addiction" as my friend calls it, consume you. Balance it with life. If I met a 35 year old today who graduated college with a BS in Engineering or whatever, and he admitted he made some mistakes when he was younger youth but he straightened himself out, and he had a side project he was working on, he'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than a college graduate as a candidate. I'm serious. It shows you are capable of growth, can stay disciplined, AND you can juggle multiple things. Everything an employer wants.
This is an extremely helpful bit of advice to read and I'll take it to heart. The problems of prioritization and adult ADHD sound accurate for me. I'm really grateful you took the time to put this together.
James Fisher
No problem. Find help tomorrow. You seem like a smart enough fellow who can take advice, which is more than a lot of fuckwaffles on this board. I want you to sit down and make the list that will change your life (this sounds cliché as fuck lol). And you're going to fucking do it. Right now. Now tomorrow. I had a high school fitness teacher who told me "Why not now? What are you waiting for? You can do it now!" She may have had an 80's haircut but she was right, you can start right now. Write down what I told you, and tape it to your fridge. Your main goal is to get into college. Once you find a university that you will be attending, find a job that is easy and pays the rent. I don't care if it's a file clerk. Easy job, preferably one you can study at and pay rent.
1. I would highly encourage you to not sell your crypto. Depending on what you have, 70k could be a life-changing amount in 10 years. Right now, its not much.
2. Can you explain what you're doing outside of work? Are you reading books front-to-back and solving every problem or something like that?
Lucas Hughes
>1. I would highly encourage you to not sell your crypto. Depending on what you have, 70k could be a life-changing amount in 10 years. Right now, its not much. I want to avoid selling it at any cost by finding some part time job for rent.
> 2. Can you explain what you're doing outside of work? Are you reading books front-to-back and solving every problem or something like that? Yes
Adrian Rodriguez
the fuck, are you trying to get a job as a programmer at a nuclear research facility or something
Jordan Jackson
>Stuff I could get at a CC: - Data Structures (I've implemented all but a couple search trees and graphs) - Algorithms (I've implemented all except graph algorithms) - Calculus III - Differential Equations - Discrete Mathematics - Physics I (motion dynamics, constraint-based physics) - Physics II (waves, optics, thermodynamics) - Image Processing
Community colleges don't teach all this shit. Go to uni for this
Logan Wilson
>Yes Bad idea dude, I understand why you're doing it because I'm similar, but for doing a job its completely unnecessary.
You learn what you need, not every single thing related to the topic. Even in university/college, you're not going to do everything in the book, you're going to go through a select portion of the book.
If you think you want to do things outside of the box, then consider doing a phd.
Colton Miller
It's really not hard to land a job you fucking retard. The problem is keeping one that's worth a fuck. I've had jobs since I was 16, but nothing that sticks which is OP's problem. Clearly he's applying for things up his alley and not some bottom barrel shit like fast food
Robert Ward
Mind you fellas, this horseshit advice only applies to white collar yuppie shit. That 9 to 5 you'll soon hate with a passion. You're correct sir, spot on actually. But it seems like you have a addiction commitment and that's sad and honestly not for everyone. I would believe you more if there weren't thousands of examples of ppl with no degrees hanging tough at jobs as we speak. Sure if you wanna stand out more, but lying about a bachelor's at the very least is easy enough to pull off and if you give a fuck enough you can keep up that lie. I guess when it comes to money you have a point, but sorry dude. If Pedro can work in the gas company for 20 years barely speaking English then OP will be fine with some gumption.
