How do I git gud in Gothic 2 NOTR? This shit is way harder than the first game

>t. filtered
Yeah, I only played original G2 once, and that was more than thirteen years ago, so NOTR "filtered" me pretty hard. With that said: It's still shit design. Making an expansion that actually punishes you hard for not knowing the original perfectly and by heart is not exactly a great decision. Making that expansion mandatory for all new players is worse. And the simple mechanics by which the game DOES try to increase it's difficulty are just incredibly poorly concieved. Turning melee damage (and only melee damage) to near pure RNG that is stacked against you is not a clever way to increase the fucking skill demand of the game, for an example.
Fuck people complain about Morrowind's combat being too RNG related: It has NOTHING on what NoTR does to Gothic.

BEWARE enemies holding weapons, they can crit. Animals cant crit, and crits do literally X10 damage . Bows are also viable because crits

> (OP)
>
>Absolute shitters. The game is still piss easy if you build your character well and know the strats for given enemies. Play the Returning mod and you'll see what is actually hard.

> (OP)
>>NOTR
>>Hard
>LOOOOL expansion literally makes early game piss easy

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balance with a single l

>BEWARE enemies holding weapons, they can crit. Animals cant crit, and crits do literally X10 damage . Bows are also viable because crits
Wrong, actually. All enemies can crit. And crit does not do x10 damage - crit deals normal damage, it's just that regular attack does 1/10 of the weapons base damage by default.
This does only apply to melee attacks though. Bows are so god damn over-powered in NotR mainly because they do not have this absurd 1/10 damage reduction, which is just another example of how retarded the balance for the expansion really is.

This is how I got gud.
Memorize the sidestep/backstep -> attack window for non-human enemies. Humans aren't too bad unless you have shit stats or can't parry. Get to 30% in a weapon, learn the swing timings and you can take everything before chapter 3. Once combat is no longer sphincter-tighteningly tense it becomes significantly easier to progress. Finally, do not be too proud to jump on top of obstacles and pelt cunts with arrows as a last (or first) resort.

Don't personally care for some of the balance changes and Magic feels weak as shit until you've eaten a countryside full of mushrooms, but NOTR is not nearly as impenetrable as its reputation.

>near pure RNG
If you're talking about crits, that was a thing in vanilla G2 already. The biggest change in difficulty between vanilla and NotR are the increasing leveling costs.

Seekers have absurdly high defense relative to when you first see them, you should just avoid them until much later.

>recommending Returning.

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Returning is shit, unoptimised and adds way too many unnecessary stuff.
Just the DX13 is enough.

>just magically know all the strategies the first time you run the game bro
why are RPG autists like this? is it the lack of other accomplishments?

R 2.0 is Fallout The Frontier of Gothic mods.

Coulda sworn animals were safe i remember farming them.
Holy fuck that balance sucks

Do zoomers really?

>If you're talking about crits, that was a thing in vanilla G2 already.
Yes, but in vanilla G2, your weapon did base damage on regular attacks, and base+strenght on crit damage.
In NotR, your weapon does 1/10 of it's base damage with the low celling of 5, and ONLY does full damage on crit.

This means that if you bought say, the Judge's Staff in G2, even though your two-handed skill was at 10, you'd do 50 damage on normal hit, and 80 (Judge's staff has base requirement of 30 strenght) on critical.
In NotR, you now deal 5 damage, unless you crit. Meaning the judge's staff now has the exact same damage on base attacks as a fucking heavy branch.

Now - the same applies to enemies. The problem is, most even early game enemies have their base weapon skill (which directly translates to % of crit chance) around 30-60.

It's absolutely hilarious if you try to do the mercenary camp quests that involve beating up a lot of guys in melee quite early into the game (meaning most of them have a relatively low melee skill - only around 30-ish), because it literally becomes a game of which one of you manages to land more crits in the same amount of time, both of you dealing next to no damage then suddenly cutting away 80% of the other's health because the dice roll said so.

It's a complete fucking farce.

Its Story is shit, but gameplay awe inspiring? Yes

>Do zoomers really?
Stop trying to fit in, child. You are bad at it.

Back in the day we just got good instead of cheating or removing the expansion pack like suggests

Are you some kind of casual?

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You learn through playing the game. You come up against an enemy that beats your ass? Reload and do it over again and again until you learn their shit. Rinse repeat with every enemy and situation in the game. It's how countless people beat this thing back in the day. Stop being a fucking baby.

Get filtered, midwit

it has nothing to do with Gothic, and yet it attempts to expand its og story by merging 300 mods and assets from skyrim together.

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I strongly doubt you actually played Gothic 2 or NotR at this point. You are just parroting the shit you heard other people say about other games that are considered hard.

>get filtered
>start seething
lmaooooo

Fighting is super simple and all enemies have easy attack pattern. You can literally beat Orc elites with a stick

>just cheat lol
disgusting

>You can literally beat Orc elites with a stick
Given the damage model: yeah, since a stick deals on average the exact same damage as a str 60 great sword...

And it all gives best gameplay in gothic history

I don't mind the difficulty spike in combat but i fucking hate the learning point costs and how it affects the game.
Guy with stupidly high dexterity and almost no points in bows will do far more damage than someone who is close to mastering the bows but lower dexterity, i get the idea of not being able to be master of all but is too much too ask for being able to be good at ONE thing?

This honestly applies only to ranged weapons, with melee it's exactly the opposite problem. If you don't have the points in melee weapon proficiency, it does not matter how high or strenght is or how good your weapons are: you won't deal any more damage than a goblin with a stick.
The system is all kinds of fucked up.

You gotta play NOTR similar to how you'd play the Souls games - you gotta be ready for a defensive action. In G2's case, the backstep is insanely good, give you some pretty significant invincibility frames.

So even when you're a shitter early on in the game, just timing the attacks and being ready to backstep should get you through most fights.

Or you can buy a transform scroll and kill every enemy on the map and get a shitload of skill points early.

>Or you can buy a transform scroll and kill every enemy on the map and get a shitload of skill points early.
Worst advice ever - it does not even really work very well in NotR, and even in G2 it was a really, really stupid strategy. You actually gimp yourself massively in the long run.

just do every quest possible bro, explore the map and kill all mobs, you should be at 8+ level at least before going to second act

How do you gimp yourself that way? I've never done it, but can only think of losing out on trophies.

It's a grindfest but you'll get there, there's nothing like finally winning fights after hours and hours of tries

>How do you gimp yourself that way?
You miss out on the loot/trophies, which especially in NotR, where there is such an insane scarcity of money is a BIG deal, but you also miss out on HP gain. For some reason - and this was probably not intended - leveling up while you are under the transformation spell does not add HP to your character per level like it would normally. Meaning your HP will be quite significantly lower than it should be if you reached the same level normally.

You miss the EXP and HP and enemies don't respawn so you're not getting that back (they spawn more when you finish a chapter)

oof
missing out on hp is really bad
never really had money problems, but I also never used the tranfsormation stuff and got the trophies.

I'm not really missing exp if I use it to level up tho am I? HP is big though.

I haven't played it in years but yeah, apparently it only affects HP but it's still a big deal

Thoughts on best apprenticeship? Potions got nerfed in NOTR but are still free stat boosts but that shit can cost a lot of already scare coin. Blacksmithing is great and is unlimited money but I've found it requires heavy investment to be viable. Hunting is still the good middle ground and pelts can net you profit but I never focus on Dex.

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I always found hunting to be the best, as it brings solid early and mid-game income. Potions you can have made, and also, you should NEVER use them - or the stat-boosting tables - until very late game, otherwise you are screwing yourself over.
Smithing never felt worth it, it's a ton of busy work for theoretically free, but much slower income than hunting, which you WILL HAVE TO DO ANYWAY in the end.
So I always went with the Hunter.

That's what I've gathered mostly, but I still like the smithing system in the game even if it's janky and a waste of points. Hunting seems like the best default option.

>This shit is way harder than the first game.

They said NOTR turns the difficulty up to 11, then came ELEX and turned it to 15.

I kinda like the process of smithing too, but what I don't like is the prospect of basically sitting on your ass and farming to make some dosh when you could be making the same money more proactively. Making a sword is kinda cool the first time, but it stops being interesting the 15th time and becomes a repetetive grind-like process.
With that said - I'm not sure if the most fiscally advantageous way in NotR isn't actually the alchemist, because he buys out black mushrooms, meadow/forrest berries and diggers meat at full price from you, and if you can get away with not using them for your own health regen, they are incredibly plentfiul, so they might just have most cash in them.

You may be right. Potions + Fire Mage is a solid option too; abusing healing spells and just pawning off ingredients *could* net you boatoads of dosh.

you realize that's its not a turn based rpg where you have to trade blows right?
every human npc you can win by properly timing your blocks and swings and every animal enemy have a pattern that makes you avoid all of their hits with proper sidestepping+backstepping.
granted the flaws you mentioned still hold true but its just not as bad as you describe it.

I could not make a fucking mage-build work in NotR at all, the insane scarcity of Ability points and the degree of tedium involved in getting there was just too much.
Then again - I did not really make a melee build work either because, well, I think NotR is just garbage. But doing a dex / strenght builds was just tedious, as opposed to mage build which felt nearly impossible.

Also, going for a mage build in NotR is a pain for another reason, which is the fact that you are forced to complete ALL of NotR's new content (literally, ALL OF IT) before you are allowed to join the third circle. And since the new map is a good 15 hours of gameplay or more: Hope you really like the first two circle spells because you are going to be stuck at them for long, Looooong time.

>you realize that's its not a turn based rpg where you have to trade blows right?
And you realize this isn't dark souls and the controls are actually fucking garbage, with god-awful delays and imprecision and generally jank as fuck. Which is fine, it was normal for RPGs at the time, but this isn't a good game to test your twitch skills, simply based on how unrefined the input actually is.
So while yes: you can build up musle memory to eventually avoid most enemy attacks and just wittle them down over time - if you can hit them 100 times without getting hit yourself, then EVENTUALLY you will get the good roll and kill them, but that does not make it not absolute shit, poor design and still tedious as fuck.
OG Gothic 1/2 had it down pretty much right. The balance between skill test and stat test was pretty optimal - you could improve your odds by having decent twitch ability, but it still felt like an RPG first and foremost.

Regardless of what coping mechanisms you may have developed for NotR, the fact that they absolutely fucked up the formula still remains.

avoid fight until chapter 3
in ch2 get Diego to run around with you and gain exp and grab nice rune (useless against Seekers)
iceblock
summon skeleton
30% one handed so you can swing left right to kill frozen enemies
some area of effect shit

Information about your HP, Mana, STR and DEX is stored in one table (attribute) that gets frozen for the time you're in the beast form. After you go back to human form, your stats are loaded from that table, which means no HP from leveling up in the beast form. It'll severely cripple you, especially in the early game where 12 HP per level may be a difference between life and death.

The only hard part of this game is begging. If you can learn to fight properly, most of enemies are no problem. Fuck you can buy a dragon snapper scroll for only 200 gold who can clear the entire khorinis. Just keep doing quests, don't take fights if you're sure you wont win. Use scrolls, they're cheap and easy to find and helps a lot. Once you get to the chapter 2 go straight to Jharkendar. This area is just free experience. Also learn to read stone tablets. Those give a huge boost to every stat. Once you kill Raven you get Claw of Belliar. This weapon is so OP and will serve you basically to chapter 6. You can also find amulet/ring set which can give you like 40 points of protection or huge boost to health(it's like 200 hit points?) Take it slow, don't be afraid to search on internet how to do certain quests. Pick every herb you can find. Later you will making potion for your main stat. As for faction just don't take mage. Paladin route is the easiest to join and even more to play. NOTR is harder, but most of bonuses compensates balance change. If this is too much, download Gothic 2 Classic mod. Vanilla experience is more noob friendly and surely it will help you when you start notr.

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I wouldn't talk shit about people being filtered in one of the most autistic, clunky and kino series ever made. This game filters everyone but the prime autists.

This is obviously written by someone who does not know much about the damn games, because it's bad advice after bad advice, and absolutely misses the reality of NotR in particular.

>That is because NOTR is absolute, pure SHIT. I mean the new content - the new maps, quests and so such are actually really good, but

No, thats what's absolutely shit about NOTR, the new map and the quests inside it!

You say it like it's complex but you can just stand still spam parry and counterattack almost every enemy, its not hard to do and you figuring out a cheese strat does not mean that reworking shit was a good idea. I have no idea why people on Dab Forums will form such arbitrary defences for shit.

>No, thats what's absolutely shit about NOTR, the new map and the quests inside it!
I genuinely liked the quests in NotR, even if it's a linear as fuck experience and a massive rehash of stuff from Gothic 1. It still felt fairly engaging. Or at least I would if the game didn't fucking force it on you the way it does.
Everything else though, is just wrong.

it has nothing to do with linearity, its that it becomes an entirely different game.

Franco wont let you into the bandit camp and sends you to do some busywork, you meet a guy in particular who tells you blatantly he's next up to be sent in.

You expect that if you killed him, you might become the next to be sent in, but Franco sends in someone else anyway, the only difference is that now he doesnt mention the guy by name.

In all of the base game, the game has a response to you doing shit like this. Not this time, even though it feels like he sent you there specifically so you learn he's next in.

Another example, you get to the island, and learn you can only go into the bandit camp if you get a bandit outfit. Cool. you get one.
But now you cant get into the camp unless you do some busywork. Not a big deal, we've seen this before right? Do busywork, get allowed in - but wait! Now Thorus wont let you go up the higher part of the camp... and then when he does, they wont let you see Raven... and then when they do, Raven teleports the fuck away and you have to go do something akin to the sword charging quest in Gothic1, completely pointless and only there to pad time.

I play NOTR a lot and I also struggled in the first time. Like I said, learning to fight is the most important factor. You don't need to clear every monster in the map because monsters do not respawn but spawns just a few more. Game despite all this give's you a lot to make throught chapter 1. Scrolls can be used by anyone and can clear out most of bandits camps requeired tu push notr plot story. Jharkander is too easy when you compare to khorinis or valley. Stone Tablet and beliar claw is game changer. You just need to open a fucking map with every herb, stone tables and find them. It takes a time to collect all this rubbish. But even you don't need to find all. All those rings, amulets etc are not for nothing. If you keep doing quests, collect stuff this game is easier than you think. But as long as you don't learn combat system it won't help you much. One handed + paladin is uber newbie walkthrough. By simple pressing S you block ALL damage besides magic but you can dodge them by pressing A or D.

Dude, if you are genuinely giving advice like "use the dragon snapper scroll" or "learn to read the tablet language early on" or even more hilariously, "keep doing quests, don't pick up fights you are unsure with", then no: I doubt you ever played the fucking game what so ever.

The dragon snapper scroll trick: Absolutely gimps you to a degree which NotR will not let you get away with.
Using potions or tablets anywhere near the late game: Absolutely fucks you over, in a way NotR will not let you get away with.

Doing quests but avoiding fights you are unsure you can do? Yeah, great advice for a game where 97% of all quests involve you getting into fights that with NotR's RETARDED damage and skill overhaul you are NEVER actually properly prepared for, because the combat is reduced to pure random chance above everything else, and if you don't get those 10-30% chance crit hits or don't cheeze the absolute fuck out of the game, you are just whailing at an enemy who is taking no damage because unlucky rolls, and who can and eventually will get HIS crit in, instakilling you.

Also 99.99999% of all plants are fucking useless, especially in NotR and it's bizzare obsession with berries, so that advice is worthless too.

Basically, nothing you said is right or a good advice. Where did you get this shit from?

Thanks user I was writing it up but I knew you'd dissect that post better than me, it was essentially "play da gaem with the knowledge you got from 1" which is the fucking problem with NOTR in that you can't actually do that. That's why I dropped it at finding bandit armor but I'll probably try to mod the game now.

Are you fucking retarded? I finished NOTR when I was 12 year old, without guides or cheats, and I'm both autistic and dumb.

>Using potions or tablets anywhere near the late game: Absolutely fucks you over
You can use then near end of chapter 2.
>Doing quests but avoiding fights you are unsure you can do? Yeah, great advice for a game where 97% of all quests involve you getting into fights that with NotR's RETARDED damage and skill overhaul you are NEVER actually properly prepared for, because the combat is reduced to pure random chance above everything else, and if you don't get those 10-30% chance crit hits or don't cheeze the absolute fuck out of the game, you are just whailing at an enemy who is taking no damage because unlucky rolls, and who can and eventually will get HIS crit in, instakilling you.
Learn to fight, simple block and attack will carry you with most enemies in the beginning. Like most rpg, chances play major role but not crucial in gothic. The only quests with fight that can be hard are mercenaries. You can just cheese them with bow and scrolls.
>lso 99.99999% of all plants are fucking useless, especially in NotR and it's bizzare obsession with berries, so that advice is worthless too.
They're important in the beginning when you don't have potions and low hp and mana. You can later convert them into healing potions/mana potions and pernament stat potion.
>The dragon snapper scroll trick: Absolutely gimps you to a degree which NotR will not let you get away with.
It's last thing you should do but even that. You can restore those lost hit points by potions, stone tablets and praying to innos
>Basically, nothing you said is right or a good advice. Where did you get this shit from?
My own experience. If you can't handle notr then just download classic mod. Every old player will tell you that notr is meant for veterans. You can be forgiven a lot in vanilla but expansion requeires knowledge about gamem, you can cope this all you want, it's hard but fair in the long run.

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>You can use then near end of chapter 2.
You can use them any time you want, but doing it ANYWHERE before later-mid game is an insane waste of AP. How do you not know about the diminishing returns for skill/stat increases, that isn't even NotR thing, that's fucking vanilla G2 thing as well!

>Learn to fight, simple block and attack will carry you with most enemies in the beginning.
See The game controls are shit, and even if you have some control over damage avoidance, you have ZERO control over damage dealing, because - and again, this is something you'd know if you have ACTUALLY played NotR, damage is specifically and near entirely tied to crit chance, which is simple percentage equal to your weapon proficiency.

>They're important in the beginning when you don't have potions and low hp and mana.
Only TWO of them actually heal better than food which is incredibly plentiful: Diggers meat, and healing plant. You can completely ignore everything else, because you'll be carrying around 150 cooked meats and 90 health potions anyway, because those are incredibly easy to get. The problem with health is only limited to surviving an encounter, not in-between.
So no. They are useless. Only ones you need to keep in mind are meadow knotweed and snapperweed (for speed potions), and then way in late game, kings sorrel and the one that is required for the stat you end up maining. But that's not even begining to be relevant until like chapter 5.

>You can restore those lost hit points by potions, stone tablets and praying to innos
That is the dumbest fucking advice I've seen anyone giving about a any game ever. You gain what, 5, 6 hit points per level in Notr? Maybe 10, I'm not sure right now.
You get 1 fucking hitpoint or manapoint per 100 gold donation, and you can do it only once, there is like 12 shrines together. And potions? You fucking waste one of the ONLY 15 king sorrels in the entire fucking game on fucking HITPOINTS?

>You can use them any time you want, but doing it ANYWHERE before later-mid game is an insane waste of AP. How do you not know about the diminishing returns for skill/stat increases, that isn't even NotR thing, that's fucking vanilla G2 thing as well!

there's no good reason to not install a mod that removes this autism. Gaining bonuses to stats shouldnt contribute towards your stat caps, its insanely autistic and retarded to keep all your stat increasing items that you start finding from the beginning of the game until the last two chapters lmao

you will also not know about this unless you 1) read a guide on your first time (whats the point) or 2) already played the game. sounds like fun for autists

>The game controls are shit

The game controls are not at all shit, they are responsive, entirely predictable and work absolutely well for the game once you learn.

I'd agree on the balancing and the rest but given your commentary on control I'm inclined to believe your incompetence leads to poor judgement.

You are just delusional and blinded by nostalgia gogles. The controls are shit. Always were. We just didn't mind because that was par for the course for RPGs. It's not really a problem in G1 and vanilla G2, because the power-growth is balanced to make up for it: You can allow errors stemming from poor controls because while good twitch control improved your odds, you did not have to rely entirely on it.
The shittiness of the controls only becomes a problem in NotR, due to how fucked up the ballance is.

If you are going to honestly tell me that the auto-targeting and camera lock-on, weapon switching and attack-transitions in Gothic 1/2 are good and reliable, then I can tell for 100%: you either haven't played the game in a decade, or you haven't played it at all.

play vanilla G2 first

>The game controls are shit, and even if you have some control over damage avoidance, you have ZERO control over damage dealing, because - and again, this is something you'd know if you have ACTUALLY played NotR, damage is specifically and near entirely tied to crit chance, which is simple percentage equal to your weapon proficiency.
Seems legit to me, most old rpg depends on chance if you're fucked or not. Atleast gothic give's you chance to depend also on your manual skill. Your incompotence and lazines to learn combat is your own fault.
>That is the dumbest fucking advice I've seen anyone giving about a any game ever. You gain what, 5, 6 hit points per level in Notr? Maybe 10, I'm not sure right now.
>You get 1 fucking hitpoint or manapoint per 100 gold donation, and you can do it only once, there is like 12 shrines together. And potions? You fucking waste one of the ONLY 15 king sorrels in the entire fucking game on fucking HITPOINTS?
You know that amulet/ring set exist? Stone tablets also count a nice bonus if you collect most of them. Healer set give's you 160 hit points which is several levels you lose by doing dragon snapper trick. By the endgame you'll have a shit ton of hp and protection that almost everyone will only fart on you. Also hit points doesn't mean that much if you're playing mage. You're fragile enough and you should avoid close combat and kill before anyone can reach you. Also you can pray to innos per DAY. The only limited supplies are str/dex and mana. It seems you lack of game knowledge if you're using false info.

>Seems legit to me, most old rpg depends on chance if you're fucked or not.
That is actually completely wrong, and goes to show you actually not only don't know anything about Gothic games, you clearly don't know anything about RPG's PERIOD.
Fun fact: Neither Gothic 1 nor 2 did actually relied on random chance to deal damage. And the RPG that do that, do it in a competent way where it is compensated for by build options, better odds or other options.

What NotR does is completely unprecedented even in old-school RPG's and just pure, absurdly shit design, that does not even fit with the game's core gameplay and control systems either. Because again: it's not something Gothic 1 or 2 were originally designed around.

>You know that amulet/ring set exist? Stone tablets also count a nice bonus if you collect most of them.
Yeah, the absolute best one gives you 40 health. Which you will need on TOP of the normal health gain to survive. As for tablets, they only compensate for level-gain nerf, meaning if you collect and use every health-increasing table in NotR, you'll end up with roughly the same mid-game health you would normally get from levels alone in vanilla G2.And gain: you will need that health, and that loot - you will absolutely need in late game.

You speak a lot of shit but if you know how important things like stat-gain diminishing returns are in Gothic games: You literally haven't played them without cheating the FUCK out of them.

Show me a video wherein you being a player who learned the game system is screwed by auto-targeting, camera lock-on, weapon switching or attack transitions.

Sticking fingers up your ears and going NANANANANANA CAN'T HEAR YOU isn't going to change the facts, kid. Proof is in the pudding: but that would require you to actually fucking play the games instead of attempting to masturbate yourself online. You haven't played the game since you were a kid, if ever.

When people claim dark souls has X, Y or Z problem, I found webms to corroborate that. Still waiting for you to produce similar evidence.

Are you delusional? When you combine all healer rings and amulet it give's you over 160hp. Also count other bonuses.
>: Neither Gothic 1 nor 2 did actually relied on random chance to deal damage.
1 depended fully on stat check. If you're not strong enough you deal no damage. In 2 atleast you always do minimal dimage but critical strike is the one that give's damage.
>You speak a lot of shit but if you know how important things like stat-gain diminishing returns are in Gothic games: You literally haven't played them without cheating the FUCK out of them.
>That is actually completely wrong, and goes to show you actually not only don't know anything about Gothic games, you clearly don't know anything about RPG's PERIOD.
You sound like you just got filtered too hard by gothic. You're trying to prove me wrong but you give the worst examples and crying about how game system is unfair and shit.

This guy's right. The original G2 was quite easy, barring the beginning, and the result is that NOTR completely overtuned the difficulty and missed the mark by a mile. I don't mind difficult games, but the expansion isn't difficult in the good sense. It's not even that the damage numbers for the enemies are too high or that they are too many, it's the fact that you need to level up FOUR times later on just to get a +5 increase in any given stat that you chose to level high enough, leading to you having to autistically micromanage every levelling process in order to get as many stat points out of your learning points as possible, search every nook and cranny for dragonroot, king's sorrell and pre-brewed elixirs and grind like a motherfucker just so you can wield the lategame equipment you actually want. And as if that wasn't enough, they cranked the stat requirements for most of the weapons way up which makes it even harder to wield the good stuff.
>b-but you don't have to level all the way up, you can still use weaker weapons/scrolls/whatever shit just fine!
Not the point, retards. If you want to, you can just transform into a dragon snapper 5 minutes into the game and clear 80% of the forest to gain 10 - 15 levels, everyone knows about every tiny little exploit already. That's not the way the game was meant to be played, however. You should notice a meaningful progression in your stats and damage output and hope not to get one shot by a fucking minecrawler in chapter 2 that you can almost not avoid and barely being able to scratch that thing without autistically grinding through the complete first chapter and maybe even Jharkendar because you cannot equip any good weapons without putting like 30 - 40 points in STR or DEX and training any of the weapon stats on top of this. It's just tiresome and not good game design.
I love Gothic 2, one of my favourite games actually. And NOTR is a great expansion, but those tweaks are just stupid.

I'm not a fucking streamer that records everything he plays. Especially shit as self-evident as this. You are not going to get that evidence, and you will spend the rest of your life lying to yourself while avoiding actually ever playing the game so that you never have to face the actual fact of the matter. Have fun with that.

>1 depended fully on stat check. If you're not strong enough you deal no damage.
That is damage-gating and skill gating, a completely different thing. And completely fucking RIGID. In two, you do BASIC damage, which is the damage you will find in the weapon's description - whatever resistances the enemy does. Crits are useful, but not necessary to deal reasonable damage, as long as you have even half-decent weapon.

In NotR, let me reitterate this point for the third time you retard, your base damage is divided by 10 unless you crit. With the bottom floor being 5.
And the weakest weapon in the game dealing 5 damage.

This means that in NotR, any weapon up to 60 damage (which is a early-mid game level gear, as the str. to dmg. ratio is on average, 1:1 between 1:1,2), you will STILL deal the same damage as the heavy branch would unless you crit.

DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE there?

Since you are retard, I'm going to put it in even simpler words. Every attack in G2 does reasonable damage as long as it connects. The much rarer crit hits do bonus damage on top of that.
In NotR, every attack that is not a crit does virtually NO DAMAGE AT ALL. Even a fucking end game weapons, with like 180 damage will deal measily 18 damage points on any non-critical attack - in a game where the lowest level mobs have 50-100 fucking HEALTH.

Do you see how "you need a certain stat to deal certain damage" differs from "you need roll 15 or less on a 100 side dice to deal any damage"?

There's nothing hard about NOTR unless you're rushing the main story like a stupid nigger. There are three points where you could run into problems if you rush.
First time you enter Valley of the Mines
First time going through the ad-on Mayan portal
Exiting Valley of the Mines after finishing your quests there for the first time
The first two you can simply turn back and go finish some quests, get better gear. You can also avoid a lot of threats in these areas and level up decently there. Third one you've really fucked yourself over. The exit is blocked by a Seeker. If you can't kill a single Seeker you will just get killed over and over here. You should have had better gear and a higher level, when I first played the game I had no problems killing a single Seeker.

I played in the past few years, "shit" is not self-evident at all and I'm not going to assume your position to bolster your point.

When I lose fights in Gothic 1 OR 2, OR NOTR it doesn't come down to : "I wish that camera worked a bit differently", "if only the auto-target didn't do X", "weapon switch got bugged" or "the attack transition didn't behave right". This is similar for most people with whom I discussed the game and you're the first I've encountered.

Most people don't bother actually arguing in detail that G1 or G2 movement system is bad because at the core they understand it's simply different to the standard control scheme they're accustomed to, but the system itself accomplishes its objectives well enough. You tried to come up with actual points to support the claim but failing to demonstrate them and in complete incongruence with my and most everyone elses' experience of the game.

>NOTR customization cheat program
where do I get this? I'd like to replay the game with more skill points so I don't have to autistically micro manage

I don't give a fuck how you justify things in your derranged head, kid. I'm talking about what is in the game.

>where do I get this?
Dab Forums for some reason does not let me post the link, but if you google "Gothic 2 Notr customizer" the very first link on the list (World of Gothic site) should lead you straight to it. Once you download it, you just unzip it, enter your Gothic 2 instal address, and then customize whatever you like: health and AP gain per level, sell-buy price ratios etc, exp rewards for quests and kill ratios etc... It even has presets, including Vanilla Gothic 2 preset, though it does not work the way you'd expect, because one thing it cannot change is the damage calculation formula. You can only mitigate for it by making the buy-out prices more reasonable and increasing your AP gain per level so that you can afford to spend more on weapon proficiencies to lessen the insanity.

The things you describe are experiences from your head, and yours alone. It's fairly simple, claim X > demonstrate X. Most people I've seen don't share in your experience, derangement is yours alone if I wanted to claim so.

>I don't give a fuck how you justify things in your derranged head, kid. I'm talking about what is in the game.
You just don't know what're you talking about are you? Gothic is a specific game and most people just adjust to it and understants how it all works. The amount of rage you put in those arguments proofs that you mad that not everyone sees your point and get mad with every another response.

>Most people don't bother actually arguing in detail that G1 or G2 movement system is bad because at the core they understand it's simply different to the standard control scheme they're accustomed to, but the system itself accomplishes its objectives well enough.
By the way, that is EXACTLY what I said, you moron. In G1 and G2, the control system accomplishes exactly what it needs, so people don't need to actually analyze it. It's shittiness does not really interfere with the game because precision is absolutely not required.

This, however, is not the case of NotR. And it generally stants against anyone who says you need to just "get good at the twitch side". Because while functional for essentialy, at core pure stat-based RPG, it stops being sufficient if you suddenly remove the stat aspect and force the player to rely chiefly on the twitch aspect. And it's on that level where you discover that the system is actually, on it's own merrit, shit.

Please provide video footage of statistically significant samples of people agreeing with you, or your opinion is completely invalid.
You dumb cunt.

>Gothic is a specific game and most people just adjust to it and understants how it all works.
It's really funny how the people who agree with me all actually do know the mechanics of the games, and people like you who disagree almost universally don't grasp basic of the gameplay... Almost as if it was me who actually does know the game better than you!
I fucking know the system you fucking retard. Far, FAR better than you do.
The amount of anger is not aimed at the game as much as it is at pretentious, lying shitheads like you, who will rather jerk themselves off online while straight up lying half of the time, than ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAMES THEY TALK ABOUT.

You still claim that the system is bad, just that most people don't notice it because there's no need to it? Your speculations are increasing but with little justification.

I explicitly said that the experiences I refer to are based on the conversations I had with people. And that your experience is the first I've encountered so far. I am absolutely fine with you not believing me in this respect.

My opinion is entirely valid among myself and those who I had conversations with, the existence of which I cannot prove to you and which I'm fine with.

Do retarded theorycrafters like this retard even play games? The second you equip a stronger weapon the difference is immediately noticeable
>end game weapons, with like 180 damage will deal measily 18 damage points on any non-critical attack - in a game where the lowest level mobs have 50-100 fucking HEALTH.
Those endgame weapons will one shot kill everything except orks which will take maybe 3 hits. You simply are not going to be hitting low level enemies for 18 damage.

holy fucking zoomers
just do all the quests that dont require combat to farm xp you morons

>>You still claim that the system is bad, just that most people don't notice it because there's no need to it?
First of all, by your own fucking logic, provide video proving that most people say what you say.
Second of all: I've explained the situation, you drooling dishonest mongoloid. And you even fucking CONFIRMED it, repeating basically word after word what I have said while still thinking you are contradicting me.
Most people don't take issue with Gothics poor control because in both G1 and G2, they don't need to be relied upon. It's poor on it own merrit, but compensated by the rest of the systems in the game, and thus does not really distract very much.
However, NotR is a different case, especially when your argument is "just get good at the twitch side of it".
Most people, you moron, actually haven't played NotR, or played it at a point where they knew Gothic 2 so well they literally knew how to exploit the absolute shit out of it.

But I don't consider those people relevant, I judge the system on it's OWN FUCKING MERIT. Objectively. Without the desperate fucking need to delude myself or be dishonest like you do. I'm actually not so fucking insecure that admitting that the controls are shit does not actually threaten my self-esteem or my judgement of the vanilla games. That is the core difference between the two of us.

Go read the thread you tard.

>Go read the thread you tard.
I did.
If you think this is Skyrim where you can kill everything from the get go with no effort then Gothic is not for you.
Either get good at the combat or avoid it until you level up.
It's quite simple really, but zoomers can't handle slow burn RPGs it seems

>The second you equip a stronger weapon the difference is immediately noticeable
It's literally, objectively, factually not. Which makes it painfully fucking clear that when you talk about people who don't play the game, you are projecting like a fucking mad-man.

>Those endgame weapons will one shot kill everything except orks which will take maybe 3 hits.
YOU. HAVE NOT. PLAYED. NOTR. You are literally just denying the fucking rules of the game, as they are objectively stated in the games fucking code.
It's absolutely fucking unambiguous: All basic attacks, unless crits, do 1/10 of the base weapon damage, with minimum guaranteed damage of 5.
Which means that unless you crit, a heavy branch (damage 5) and judge's staf (damage 50) deal EXACTLY the same damage. Literally boot up the fucking game, and go test it out for yourself, you dishonest cunt.

>Those endgame weapons will one shot kill everything except orks which will take maybe 3 hits.
That's less the weapon damage, and more the fact that you will have a lot of strength and very high crit chance in the late game.

>If you think this is Skyrim where you can kill everything from the get go with no effort then Gothic is not for you.
The fact that you can't make a single post without desperately projecting your "assumptions" about my age proves which one of us is the fucking under-age here.

You are lying about a game you have not played in order to make yourself feel above others on an anonymous board, for fuck sake. Get a grip.

Different categories of claims here. My claim is that most people, IN MY EXPERIENCE, don't share your experience. I already said that you can take that or leave it, it doesn't impact the larger point :

your claim is : the system in the game does X, Y and Z - that's something you say is objective, then you should be able to easily produce such evidence for others.

I think realizing how little do you actually have to fight is a big advantage, but that unfortunately comes only after couple playthroughs. For now, look for way to complete quests without combat, also you can easily level up by teaming up with someone (take lares and search for piece of key-ring-thingy, take hunter dude and hunt with him). Another thing is that you want to hit jarkendar absolutely as fast as you possibly can. Jarkendar is built for low-level playthrough, despite high-level enemies everywhere, You can beat through it with the worst shitter of character, and exp gains are massive.

Good luck, it's worth it. Jarkendar is what introduces actual Gothic-1-like experience to G2.

Actually it's PURELY because you'll have very high crit chance. Strenght does not really play into it, it only affects what weapon you can wield. In vanilla G2, your strenght was added to the damage on crit hits, but in NotR this - alongside with stat-based resistances on certain enemies - was stripped away. Instead, now "crit" literally just means "full damage". If you have 80% weapon proficiency, the differnce between 50 and 120 damage melee weapon is big, because most of your hits (80% of them exactly) will be dealing that damage.

But if you have low proficiency / crit, then suddenly the difference between 5 and 12 damage you are actually dishing out most of the time is really fucking irrelevant.

Eee no, not even him, but you just got filtered. You say shit like this game is impossible to beat, and that's just not true. You can even cheese majority of the enemies

Actually, I'm saying it's shit. That does not mean it's impossible. It means it's not worth it for any sane person.

>Strenght does not really play into it
I don't have the game installed, but I remember strength adding to crits in NotR. I googled to see if I'm misremembering and most sources say that strength adds to both normals and crits in both vanilla and NotR. Do you have damage formulas for G2 and NotR?

Hunter is the best if you just want money without putting in much actual effort, you're always gonna be killing shit and collecting hides along the way.
Blacksmith gives you some decent one-handed weapons to make, and you can roll in gold if you're willing to spend a lot of time to make swords. The LP cost is pretty steep, though.
Alchemy is easily the worst. You can only sell mushrooms, and you're better off eating the small ones for free mana. Constantino will also teach you even if you're not his apprentice as long as you know at least one potion recipe.

Overall I think Hunter is the best. Low LP cost and solid money at low effort.

Fuck me, I liked it. Never played the original, though.

Actually, you are right, it's just that the effect is mostly canceled by enemy damage resistance.

The formula for Vanilla Gothic 2, it's:
(Weapon Damage + Strenght) - Enemy resistance for normal hits
and
(weapon damage x 2 + strenght) - enemy resistance for crits.

In NotR, it's
((weapon damage + strenght)/10) - enemy resistance for normal
and (Weapon damage + strenght) - enemy resistance for crits.

It's worth mentioning that A) in Gothic 1 and vanilla 2, there were specific stat-based resistances for higher tier enemies, meaning that if your strenght/endurace was bellow certain threshold, 90% of the damage would neglected. But it was static, no chance involved. NotR does not have this at all. And B) the same damage formula applies to both you and all enemies in the game.

As for why I forgot your strenght is added to the WP, it's because it's done BEFORE the /10 and only after you also detract the enemy resistance. So if you have 50 strenght, and you are fighting AP5 enemy (basic bandit), it literally cancels itself out on normal hits.

>in Gothic 1 and vanilla 2, there were specific stat-based resistances for higher tier enemies
If you wouldn't mind, could you explain more or give examples of such enemies? I thought that in G1 your melee attack will deal damage as long as weapon damage + your strength > enemy armor for dmg type, and the damage will be the difference, I don't remember any extra resistances.

Exactly. It felt so incredibly slow on my last Mage run, but I didn't mind doing the NOTR content since it was my first time in like decade.
To be fair, the early spells are fine up until you venture back to the Valley, but the scarcity of skills is really the prohibitive wall. I went in building a Mage and it barely worked, and wasn't even a powerhouse until it didn't matter at all.
I think that's the major downside to Mage in NOTR; you are a weak swordsman with a magic cirlce or two for 80% of the game, until you reach a point, rather quickly, that you can Lightning Bolt down demons and dragons with relative ease. There is no good middle ground.

>you are forced to complete ALL of NotR's new content (literally, ALL OF IT) before you are allowed to join the third circle
That's just wrong. Which circles you can learn depend on chapter, so if you beat chapter 2 first you can play through the add-on world with third circle spells.

>If you wouldn't mind, could you explain more or give examples of such enemies?
Most higher tier enemies in both games functioned like that. A good example (and the reason why I brought it up) is the dragon snapper, which is relevant due to the potential scroll exploit in G2. I don't know the actual stat threshold, but I'm going to eye-ball it at say, 50. Meaning that unless your character has strenght (in melee attack) or dexterity (in range attack) of 50 or more, the damage will always register as 10% of your actual WD+Attribute value. Basically meaning anyone or anything with attribute lower than that would barely scratch them.
The best case to illustrate that is with the aformentioned dragon snapper exploit. In vanilla G2, this was INSANELY overpowered, you could literally chew on 90% of all enemies in the game (including wargs and shadowbeasts) because outside of trolls and orks and fire lizards, no beast or bandit registered as 50+ attribute value enemy.

In NotR, however, this feature was removed. This is why suddenly, in NotR, wargs and bow-equipped bandits will absolutely wipe the floor with you in dragon-snapper form now. This is because without the damage resistance threshold, ranged weapons now deal a simple WD+Dex damage on EVERY HIT - no exceptions, and as for wargs, they are defined as if they had high proficiency, rather than high attribute, meaning they are just pretty much 100% guaranteed to crit with every attack, meaning you always take the full brunt of it.

I should have specified, the (WD+Strenght)/10 ONLY APPLIES TO MELEE WEAPONS in NotR.
Ranged are still just WD+Dex. And magic is just WD-resistance.

>That's just wrong.
You are only permited entering circle 1 in chapter 2. The monastery dude (forgot his name) will then unlock new circle with each chapter: meaning you unlock circle 2 on chapter 3, circle 3 on chapter 4 and so on.
You can circumvent him JUST ONCE: Milton can ascend you to circle 2 when you reach the castle still in chapter 2. Chapter 2 ends with you getting the report from the valley and reaching back to Khorinis (and that is when seekers start to appear).
However, to the monastery dude, chapter 3 means you are allowed to only learn circle 2, and he will refuse to teach you more until you finish chapter 3.
And to finish chapter 3, you need to finish the ENTIRE Jarkendal or whatever is the expansion map named. And this time, nobody else can circumvent the guy. To gain access to circle 3, you MUST enter chapter 4, to enter chapter 4 you MUST finish the expansion content.

This is a fact. Have YOU even played the game?

Thanks, I've never heard of this mechanic, I think I'm gonna reinstall the game to see how that exactly works.

>You are only permited entering circle 1 in chapter 2
Wrong. You can reach circle 1 as soon as you become a firemage, which is in chapter one. Then a new circle unlocks each chapter, so circle 2 as soon as you hit chapter 2, circle 3 when you hit chapter 3 and so on.
The only exception to this is circle 6 which you can learn in chapter 5 after reading the almanach in the hidden library.

Frankly, outside of specific cases like the difference between your options exploiting the dragon snapper scroll (which you should not do anyway, for reasons stated above), it does not matter that much. Despite what it looks, progression in Gothic 1/2 is actually quite gated anyway. Since higher damage dealing weapons were always gated behind stat requirement anyway, you'll rarely notice this, because you'll generally be required to fight enemies in your level rank anyway. It really only shows when you are seriously under-leveled.
You may notice it in some cases. I found it most jarring in case of shadow beasts in Gothic 1, which were literally taking NO damage at one point, then suddenly two levels and 15 dex points later, I could suddenly three-shot them without a problem with the same bow. Turns out, the 15 difference in dex is minor in terms of damage output (it literally adds 15 points of damage on top of a bow that already has base damage of like 50), but it was the difference needed to jump from them resisting damage, to taking it regularly.

>Wrong. You can reach circle 1 as soon as you become a firemage, which is in chapter one.
Seriously: What is wrong with you?
OK, doublechecking this and I will correct myself. You can reach circle 3 in chapter 3. BUT you can't do it before you finish the Eye of Enos story-line.
And the restoration of eye of Innos is gated behind the expansion content, because for the restoration ritual, you require to complete Relief for Vatras, and that requires the Jerkoff side of the island completed. So you are still stuck at circle 2 magic for the entirety of the expansion.

>Seriously: What is wrong with you?
I could ask you the same thing. Maybe stop playing with mods?

>You can reach circle 3 in chapter 3. BUT you can't do it before you finish the Eye of Enos story-line.
Healing the eye of Innos unlocks circle 4, not circle 3. You can learn circle 3 as soon as chapter 3 starts, provided you can make it past all the seekers to the monastery.

>I could ask you the same thing. Maybe stop playing with mods?
No mods but compatibility patches. Literally finished the game as a mage not four weeks ago.
Not to mention, I distinctly remember my playing pattern back from the days I used to replay Gothic 2 almost yearly as a teen - where I would always rush the eye of innos questline as fast as I could to unlock the circle 3 to get the summon skeleton spell which was hilariously OP. So my shock that you can't fucking get that shit through the entirety of the expansion was rather vivid and standing out. Regardless of learning later on the removal of the flat damage reduction and massive increase in relative mana cost makes the spell a hell of a lot less useful in NotR.