What happened to Total War?

It's complicated, but I'd say it boils down two things: engine troubles and subservience to multiplayer for things like pacing and balancing. I do wish Shogun 2's Avatar Conquest caught on, though.

That looks promising

I find it sad there exist games that tried Total War, but CA simply has the basic know-how from creating so many that nothing with realistically top them on that same level. Same with Paradox and their Grand Strategies.

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Do real life battle strategies work in Total War games? Are unique strategies possible in the warhammer games trough the unique units or are they just reskins?

They used to before the entire combat model became exceedingly arcade-like. Hammer and anvil, skirmishing, etc worked in older games.

I always hated the excessive pace of battles and the result always being a Cannae-scale genocide. Some mods show that a more realistic style of just routing your opponents is possible while still being fun. The games peaked with Shogun II though and have only been getting more dull. It was so much more visually appealing than even the warhammer games, it had character and delightful animations.
Videos like this show how easy basic improvements like this would be to implement but for whatever reason CA just can't do it despite the release of countless titles.

This leaks neat, but imagine microing and baiting like this in a full-scale battle. Total War went for wide strokes over small-scale engagements.

>Not even out yet,m will be in early access
>Devs are literally called Slavic Magic
Hard pass

This. This is stupid. Groups of men can't 'micro' like that in real life. They'd either be going incredibly slow backwards, or tripping over themselves.

>Groups of men can't 'micro' like that in real life. They'd either be going incredibly slow backwards, or tripping over themselves.
The Carthagians middle literally did a strategic retreat during the Battle of Cannae. And it was done by Celtic and Iberian mercenary troops.

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Easy as fuck to do if they have trained it which they do with all formations.

Well trained soldiers could stop a charge on a moments notice and reform into formation. Look at the various battles of Ceazar and Pompey.

Then why did games like King Arthur fall well short of even TW? Clearly, there are many ways Total War could be improved. Some of them we KNOW to be perfectly realistic expectations of what can reasonably be for example (by, for example, other TW games or their mods succeeding). However, while it's fairly trivial to improve upon them in some set of aspects, as far as the total large-scale RTT package goes. I haven't seen or played anything that really compares, so they must be doing something right. Maybe there are non-obvious tradeoffs to get things to work at scale or to control nicely.

You're goddamn right. Although I think the original user was talking more about the player engaging with such functionality. It would be a neat novelty, but short of giving actual units more AI autonomy I don't exactly see your average player making use of this.

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fuck historical total war, give me warhammer

>What happened to Total War?
Turns out, Warhammer fans are far more easy to please than history fans. That is what happened. I can lament it, but I can't argue with it.

because creative assembly essentially has everyone else beat through sheer experience of using the same formula over and over again. I imagine it's incredibly hard to break into that specific type of strategy nowadays.

Would you like your s@y latte with that order?

CA forgot how to make good games

Iran Iraq war was a total war

But they had it basically nailed down by Rome. In some aspects neo-TW is even a downgrade.

Turns out creating games with large scale battles is not that easy and fat fucks complain about nothing.

>Groups of men can't 'micro' like that in real life.

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warhammer is superior gameplaywise to any historical one and you cannot deny it

>made-up world is easier to reproduce than the real one
Im not surprised

They populated more than half of their workforce with trannies and femoid community managers who they then gave weeks of paid leave to for their ''PTSD'' from seeing anime sideboob.

I just want Shogun 3

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>muh history
>muh realism
>muh simulation
Games are supposed to be fun!

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>mfw they announce Empire 2

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>ten hours long
Fucking hell

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CA is continually dumbing their games down into being slightly more complex MOBAs because they're desperately chasing that esports money even though literally 10 people play competitive Total War multiplayer.

But TW is anti-fun due to being too arcade

Beautiful

Realism is fun :)

Why does this look better than everything in Warhammer?

Arcades were always loads of fun, you double-zoomer!

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A good empire 2 would be one of the most kino game CA could make

It's not really about reproduction, but rather the general mindset of the fanbases. WH fans are happy they get to see their favorite universe being all pretty and on display. They are united by common liking for something - if someone caters to it, there are naturally disposed to like it more by default.

Meanwhile, the kind of people who prefer historical settings are more often than not united by what they DISLIKE, and defined by being more picky about stuff. Their mindset tends to be appriory negative, if something focuses on what they claim to like, they are automatically predisposed to be MORE critical to it than usual.

Same applies to the fiscal side of things. WH fans are used to paying for getting extra cool stuff. They don't mind paying for DLC, they value seeing their favorite faction in action more.
Meanwhile, the crowd of people like me tend to be more critical towards such practices, less eager to forgive scummy DLC milking etc... because again: WH fans are driven by their passion for the universe, where is boring old realismfaggots like me are more driven by disillusion.

Haven't they been using the same engine since like 2008? Every new game is the same game with a new coat of paint

>implying CA will ever make another game where you can play as white people shooting brown people

>All those men sent flying
I guess that's why they call it "fall of the samurai"

>head CA programmer talks at my Uni
>says using same code since 2005 just revamp it and revamping/rewriting all the time is pivital to them

I guess it would cost to much to rewrite from scratch but I always wondered how much time and effort would go into making an entire new engine and codebase

If this was Warhammer, the models hit by the explosion would either explode into jam or be thrown a mile away and then immediately get back up, because they tied HP to the entire unit rather than each individual model and I hate it

I look forward to seeing Legendary General John Churchill ride around taking on entire regiments of infantry on his own and summoning cannon balls out of the sky.

Unless they find a way to fix the issue of sieges, I would much more like to see Empire 2.
I like Shogun 2 the most in terms of settings, types of units and ballance and all, but fuck me the sieges... the sieges are enough to make me drop the game.
Empire (and possibly Napoleon, I haven't yet played it) were the only games that managed to curb the amount of siege battles significantly, and for that and that alone, I think they are the best titles in the franchise.

youtube.com/watch?v=V8307avwhgI
tl;dr mechanics that work extremely well for Warhammer Fantasy are being applied to the ENTIRE SERIES, which is destroying what made the original games good

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No joke, the explosion, fire, weather, fog and smoke simulation of Total War series peaked with Shogun 2. It also melts your GPU so they dropped it. Same reason why Warhammer 1 is actually more beautiful than Warhammer 2. Also, it is why 3 Kangdoms runs best of all despite having the largest battles: optimisations sacrificed graphics.

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History fans will also point to Kingdoms as the kind of expansion we'll never get again.

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That would be countered by actually focusing on the Indian theatre tho, 18th century India is a fascinating place with lots of potential

Shogun 2 runs ten times better than TWW2.

>That moment when it's just hero's, superstitious freakshit, and jap wank that doesn't the era justice
Stay the fuck away from it CA.

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Watching those tiny fragile men get back up after being hit by the full force of that shit hurts me in ways nothing else can

>Meanwhile, the kind of people who prefer historical settings are more often than not united by what they DISLIKE, and defined by being more picky about stuff. Their mindset tends to be appriory negative, if something focuses on what they claim to like, they are automatically predisposed to be MORE critical to it than usual.

Truth! Just hear the Roma-boos bitch about lorica segmentatata or pic related. History-fags ENJOY being angry. Also, they're tightfisted despite, on average, not being poorfags.

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Bait

Fall of samurai was great though

And frankly only America and crusade were really great

Medieval 1, Medieval 2, and Shogun 2 remain the peaks of the series. Everything else might as well be redundant cash grabs.

Faith, steel, gunpowder. Also, Sigmar protects!

They tied life to the unit's whole health pool. No other way to do it in a setting with monsters that can knockback so often. Otherwise, a single monster would melt an entire army.

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I don't give a shit about history. I'm here to play a game, not to sit through a lesson. I don't know anything about Japan, I don't know when the Roman Republic became an Empire. When I play Rome or Shogun 2, I enjoy myself because the game is well made, the tactics make sense, the soundtrack is good and overall I have a fun time.
I like fantasy. I played both Total Warhammers, and I didn't find a minute of enjoyment. I didn't open the game hoping to be disappointed, I wasn't "driven by disillusion", I wanted to play a fun fucking game and these games aren't fucking fun.

I don't think complaining about anachronisms is bitching, though. Armor is specifically tied to different periods of Roman history. Then again reason why CA makes these decisions is probably the same why your typical TW player isn't interested in something like Europa Barbarorum - anal retentive accuracy is irrelevant to him as long as he can associate general image with something he recognizes.

shogun 2's multiplayer was the absolute fucking best and I wish they'd even attempted 1/10th of the effort for their later relases.

Warhammer was basically dead, killed by the "End Times" bullshit, and Total Warhammer revived it and pulled new fans into the mix
I think it should have remained dead though, but at least they didn't try to do a Total Warhammer 40K, thank fuck for that

It became good

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>Otherwise, a single monster would melt an entire army.
almost like the correct answer was to rethink how your existing combat model would change with the inclusion of shit like magic and monsters

>call it that from Warhammer on, CA will put the hero system in more sequels
>people say I'm full of shit
>3K and Troy happens
>they got heroes

Can't wait for Queen Victoria riding a steam tank into a line of riflemen in Victoria Total War I guess.

>I don't think complaining about anachronisms is bitching, though. Armor is specifically tied to different periods of Roman history.
I get it. But a lot of what we ""know"" about history is just plain wrong and a creation of popular culture. Like those dignified white marble busts... which it turns out were garishly painted.

Wanting historical accuracy is like wanting dinousaurs with fabulous feathers instead of scaled murder-machines in a Jurassic Park movie. Legit but unfun and masochistic.

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That's because it's supposed to look EPIC rather than make any sense.

Incredible how a single design change has completely fucked up Total War. It's not something you can fix with a patch.

What's sad is how the "historical realism" debate has been used to cover up basic mechanics issues.

>spearmanii and swordmanii awkwardly poking at each other
Jesus, this game aged like shit

>tfw the series peaked with Rome 1 and Medieval 2

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What kills me is 3K was THE perfect opportunity to appease history fags. It's the first time you had a legit different mode of play you could've run wild with.

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Even in the tabletop, a monster can't wipe out an army. It's balanced for gameplay. Sure, it looks silly in action but it is the least bad option.

What would be your solution? Make armies of tens of thousands versus literally less than a dozen of monsters so that people can keep dying for longer? 2021 hardware can't handle it. I'm actually dreading the combined 3-game Mortal Empire, even with the latest optimisation.

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What is that legion soldier stabbing at on the right?

they will ride the Warhammer train till kingdom come. Games Workshop consoomers are the biggest whales there are in the industry.

You could make TW: Warhammör 8 - The Revolutioning and they would buy it and buy it and buy it

The future is now, old man.

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You know you are completely wrong? Each individual model has it's own HP, which is why some spells like invocation of nehek say "heals models before resurrecting units". Its also why focus firing low model units like chariots and trolls is important with high damage attacks like cannon. You need to kill the model.

>A 10 foot general leading his 5 foot men into battle against another 10 foot general and his army of 5 foot men
I can't wait..

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It didn't age like shit. It's shit. Its existence is an insult to the original Rome.

This demo screen alone shows that CA knows it's a difference in gameplay style and has absolutely nothing to do with "historical accuracy." It's become a completely bad faith argument.

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>all soldiers are just standing there watching and doing fuckall while big birb is throwing them around over and over again.
Truly, the peak performance of Warhammer AI

>You could make TW: Warhammör 8 - The Revolutioning and they would buy it and buy it and buy it
Nah. They'll give something else a whirl.

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And what would you do, champ? Your kind would have held back progress. We'd still be playing on toasters with with static tokens standing in for units.

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just pick one of the two shit-flinging camps and ignore the flaws of the system, goy.

So how likely are we to get Medieval3 in the near future?

>progress

Model number is tied to HP thresholds. Go below X% of HP, Y number of models die.

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I hope you don't equate the 5th sequel of Warhammer TW to technological advances.

that would be retard nigger level

It's literally going to be the next game after Warhammer 3

I was going to make a mod that makes it so that basically every individual unit dies in a couple hits that get past their defense. I forget the system, but the game goes through defense checks which are like i-frames or something to simulate the soldier blocking without actually animating them doing anything, and if your check fails you take damage like normal. I really want to see what it would look like.

Well, I can't explain your specific personal experience: I can't even begin to speculate because I only played the WH TW games for like five hours total, so I just don't know enough about them mechanically to speculate why they don't appeal to you.
I know I personally find this setting specifically pretty much repulsive. I'm not sure why, and I don't blame anyone but myself for this, but I just can't fucking stand WH fantasy for some reason, it's incredibly ugly to me. I can't get over it.

Three Kingdoms and the Trojan War were all about the heroes and their personal dramas you fucking moron.

That's not how it works. It's obvious when you fire a cannon at infantry you delete a line of models but a volley of arrows can do a lot of hp damage but kill no models because its spread over the unit.

Actually no. Total Warhammer was so successful that GW is bringing back the Old World.

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"Go Cassius! Kill those barbarians. I known you can do it!"

They turned it more and more into a moba to make it more exciting

I’d love to have a mid 19th century TW, like fall of the samurai... maybe the Franco Prussian war, Crimean war, Taiping rebellion, these could be fun

Normalfags
remember kids this is what happens when you dont gatekeep hard enough

Why didnt it happen sooner?

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>They tied life to the unit's whole health pool.
Nope, each unit really does have their own hp pool, it's just huge. This is why they start dropping like flies once unit HP is low, because 70% of them all have about the same health from the constant AOEs, so a few arrows or another AOE and dozens of units die all at once, but the unit HP barely moves because the remaining 30% never got hit much and morale is more likely to dip instead.

I know they do something about the direction an attack comes in as well, like if an impact hits a unit in the back the game only counts like 25% of their total listed armour stat, whereas the sides are like 50% or something, with the front being 100%
I dunno, I just miss Shogun 2
I know Shogun 2 wasn't immune to bullshit though, I recall trying to snipe an enemy general with arrows once and all the arrows were inexplicably landing in the exact same spot one meter to his left, after about five more volleys they all suddenly came down and all hit him at once, killing him
Not sure how CA decided to do it but the combat is so bullshit in the Total Warhammer games that I don't even bother watching the fighting anymore lol

The issue is that this MOBA-tier system leads to a lot of balancing issues that the devs are completely ignoring. If you're going to make your generals and lords the centerpiece of the armies, then unit balance becomes less of a priority and you need to completely revamp special abilities.

Dawn of War 3 was an extreme example of how this can go wrong.

As a side game.

Cannonball is an instant fuckhuge amount of damage, so a HP threshold is triggered immediately.
Archer volleys are a death by a thousand cuts, especially against units with shields (block 55% of all arrows). It's really obvious if you do the proper thing and circle such a unit to shoot it in the back.

Reminder that CA knowingly balances all of their games around the handful of autists of the forums who play multiplayer and endlessly complain.

If I made one mistake in my life I should have burnt Berlin

I've been playing tons of AoE3 will my micro and artillery focus transfer to Empire in TWWH?

Is this in game stuff?

It's not a coincidence that "revolt farming" becomes a necessary strategy in Total Warhammer. When heroes are more important than the army, then the system actively encourages you to grind encounters like that if you want to compete by the endgame. It makes for a totally different play style that requires a totally different design philosophy.

It's not about realism.

CA also releases a each DLC with an obviously overpowered and unbalanced unit, this trend never stops with each DLC they drop, and it causes autists to buy up the DLC so they can experience a taste of X latest unit being overpowered as fuck, and then a month later they patch and nerf it, running away with the money
They've been doing this for years
CA fans are nothing but a cow to be milked at this point

The scene was taken from the blood dlc trailer but yes, Tyrion has this exact execute animation in game too.

Pretty cool stuff.

Dude, even Skavenfags agreed they needed nerfing. There's being op and then there's being so op it's not worth the load times because battles are over instantly and without any challenge.

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There are several more of them

youtube.com/watch?v=eAdKOLW00Ds

My enemies any many.

To be fair the hp system has been like that since Rome 2.

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My rivals are none

coincidentally, Total War games were shit since Rome 2.

Well you're not wrong

youtu.be/a-URlhtG1qY
Why is this guy like every French man in every game.

They had bugs. They got better. Rome 2 was the peak of Total War settlement and siege variety. Which, incidentally, meant the AI just can't handle siege maps.

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I played shogun 2 when drop in battles actually worked. Great times.

Those literally work in Warhammer.

Its not a necessary strategy.
Its only a recommended strategy, for certain factions on legendary difficulty. Even then, you aren't supposed to revolt farm for long, 10-20 turns at most while you pacify a region from its initial conquest.
The AI relentlessly expands in TWWH2, so every turn not fighting the AI, is a turn lost to opportunity cost.

Vampire counts in particular rely on revolt farming, because they are the most lord/hero dependent faction, and have huge difficulties initially with public order due to being corruption based.
High elves don't revolt farm at all, no time, much better to quickly unify the race.
Also check the imrik campaign, on legendary the only good strategy is a brutal rush against the skaven. Any slow shit like revolt farming = death, when the skaven get strong.

youtu.be/A0tDfds6tkY
he's also this not French guy.

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I miss Shogun 2's avatar mode. it would have been a perfect fit and milking-cow for Total Warhammer. It's like CA doesn't like money!

Even if you shoot units in the back the damage will still be distributed mostly evenly by a volley. So it can have less total unit hp but more models than one that got hit by a cannonball that instakilled a few models but left the hp of the rest of them unscathed.

Only on lower difficulties because the bonuses scale so insanely for the AI:
>VH/VH
>a charge of Reiksguard literally can't rout Skavenslaves, it gets tied down and mobbed
That's not even taking into account monsters and heroes.

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I miss total war arena.
The meta got a bit stinky towards the higher tiers so I mostly played low tier games but it was still fun.

which is beyond retarded.

the game needs to have sp balance and mp balance. its completely different and should be treated as such.

How do I actually hit things with naval bombardments? The enemy seems to always know where it's going to hit and moves out of the way

>customisable heroes
>custom banners and colours
>armour sets
>full TWW avatar conquest multiplayer mode
>clan battles
>every unit has a skill tree

can you imagine? it hurts bros

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Then you’re just jaded

Have you actually played the fucking game?
Every campaign, you are given the choice of campaign/battle difficulty, which can be set seperately.
You can set a very hard campaign, so tides of enemies swarm at you. But normal battle difficulty, so every battle strategy works exactly as intended.

High battle difficulties are not intended to be fun, but for masochists like legend.
Just play on normal battle difficulty (which is the DEFAULT setting), and there is literally nothing to complain about, a reiksguard will quickly shatter a skavenslaves.

My point isn't specifically about revolt farming (though it is, like you said, a recommended strategy for early game tempo), but how it's a symptom of the larger issues people have with the hero system. Ideally you wouldn't waste any time at all with that since it essentially feels more like an AI exploit than a logical strategy.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a systems issue that's completely separate from historical accuracy. You could argue that a Sparta campaign where you spend the first 20 turns farming helots is "historically accurate," but it exposes some pretty massive design issues if it becomes the recommended early game strategy.

normalfags like yourself got filtered by RTS, so they died out

As much as I enjoy big castles and street fights I still prefer Shogun 2 sieges because the AI can actually handle attacking and defending them decently. That's why im worried that if they add full castles to Warhammer 3 it'll just be even easier than it already is to beat the AI in a settlement. Not that they can make it much worse than it already is.

It totaled

America kinda sucks, the only cool things about it are the new spanish and the injuns, problem with the latter is that they're too far apart from everything else, and by the time you make your way to the rest of the map the Tlaxcalans have somehow already won

I think people are just dissatisfied that CA chooses to scale difficulty in terms of things like "morale cheats" instead of something more elegant or logical. It's the equivalent of an FPS getting harder just by turning the enemies into bullet sponges. It just feels lazy and forced.

Its only recommended for a FEW races out of like 12.
Its only recommended on VH campaign difficulties. How do you even get that many revolts on lower difficulties?
And it only lasts for like 10 turns, why is it a design issue at all? Its thematically appropiate that you are stuck fighting small scale rebel battles in the early game, on the hardest difficulties.
If you don't like it, play on normal, where with enough skill, you can rush the enemy head on.

What's the fucking alternative?
AI is insanely hard to program, even harder to "dynamically adjust" the difficulty.
Its literally a choice given to you, I never play on any battle difficulty other than normal.
The actual strategies by the AI are very logical even if occasionally exploitable.

I played Shogun 2 years after I played the TWH games. I don't have any nostalgic feelings for Shogun 2, I don't care for the setting. I have no emotional attachment to Japan, nor did I have any inherent dislike for Warhammer. If I was just a jaded asshole who likes complaining about stuff, I would have liked Shogun 2 even less than TWH. I didn't.

I never said it was thematically inappropriate, just as I said that Sparta-helot grinding wouldn't be historically inaccurate. I'm repeating myself but all I said was that the games have become heavily focused on hero/lord strength which creates new types of balancing issues.

I never said that it was brain-dead simple to program AI for dozens of different factions in a massive game world. All I'm saying is that people rightfully call it a somewhat lazy trick to just scale up the numbers instead of giving you alternative objectives or adjusting faction behavior at harder difficulties (as ideas, not that they'd necessarily work).

Warhammer 2 is great I wouldn't pay for any of the DLC though. I bought TW1 and TW2 and just used cream.api for the DLC cause I don't play online anyways.

Then it’s entirely possible that you hated TWW at the time because you didn’t know what you were doing.

its perfectly fine to prefer shogun over warhammer. i love warhammer total war because its the best warhammer game but i wouldnt say its a great total war game. attila was way better as a pure total war game.

It's empirically possible to make a Total War AI slightly less gigaretarded, though, as evidenced by mods that do just that (and variation between the games). You know, non-awful enough that you'd get the same perceived difficulty without the most off-putting cheats where the AI clearly plays by different rules.

lol

it is also possible that the game isn't good.
I don't think there's a point arguing about it, seeing how you still hold your opinion despite the amount of flaws presented in this thread alone. Both of us would be repeating the same old talking points. However, I highly recommend that you play Rome and compare how it plays to how the modern TW titles play.

>AI is insanely hard to program, even harder to "dynamically adjust" the difficulty
Do your fucking job t. CA you've been developing tech to do literally nothing but this for the last decade and a half and you can't even program some AI to do more than skirmish with archers and +forward with infantry. Its ridiculous the low bar that CA's stockholm syndrome afflicted playerbase applies to Total Scam.
>Those literally work in Warhammer
The only maneuvers that work are the ones that coincidentally involve spamming archers and providing killzones for them. Cavalry focused strategies are complete garbage in Total War Warhammer.

Okay, CA has picked YOU decide the setting of the next historical total war game.

However, it MUST be a setting the series has not done before. Not that evereything needs to be totally new and never in a past game, but the overall focus cannot be the same.

What do you pick?

>Hard mode: must be an entirely different geographic area, not different time periods of the same region

Mongols.

The playing field is eastern europe all the way to japan.

Just give me Victoria

more popular than ever

Total Great War
The engine only seems to be able to do ranged combat well (judging by Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai being the only game in it with fun battles) so may as well take it to the logical conclusion.

Just so you know new Historical games will be just as bad. Just look at Rome 2, 3K and Troy.

MoWAS2 is a pretty decent WW2 strategy game. Shame there's no good 4k/grand strat counterpart

I think they are going to do another fantasy setting based games. The question is which setting?

That's a mesmerizing gif, thank you

maybe the spike the guns next time ney

dumbo

This. There was no weight to anything in Empire and the games afterwards. Units didn't collide properly and there was no feeling of melee.

I enjoyed Ass Squad 2, the only thing that annoyed me was soldiers in buildings always had a terrible time shooting out of them, so random piles of rubble made for better cover.

>shitter teammates on the right lose the game for you.
This forced 50% winrate is BULLSHIT

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Would be dope, though CA would struggle to make dlc for the non-Mongolian factions. It'd be interesting to have a Total War where the map stopped at the Danube

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Fuck you weeb faggot. Medieval 3 is where it's at.

damn that looks cool

its a great setting for CA because it involves their two biggest markets europe and china.

and everyone loves mongols.

fpbp. this is the correct answer.

Lord of the Rings: Total War

Aztec total war

>What do you pick?
Crimean War
There is a fucking embarrasing lack awareness and interest in this absolutely fascinating conflict and environment. Meanwhile, the gameplay structure fitting it was already tested in other titles, including Shogun 2 and Empire.

>toshiie switches to high stance in the middle of being attacked and stops being hit stunned

fuck off

What's the state of Thrones of Britannia in 2021?

I never understood why people shit on it, isn't it exactly what history fags wanted? Realistic, medival setting with no DLC so you spend 60$ and have a full game.
They always say muh fantasy, muh generals, we want a historical Total War, while ignoring that game

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People shit on it because the game is essentially a shittier and smaller Attila.

How is it shittier? I'm honestly curious, because I've never played both games. What is Thrones of Britannia doing wrong, that other historical games are doing right?

Can someone explain to me this "hatred" to newer TW games?

t. played only Medieval 2: TW and warhammer 1 (Not for long, though. Need to update my pc)

They pretty much have to commit to fantasy settings at this point since neither the engine nor their creative team can handle unit-centric gameplay anymore. Not that I'd personally mind since I (mostly) like what they did with Warhammer.

>made by a single dude

How?

The main issue is that newer TW games have fully committed to heroes being more important than your units, so it leads to a bunch of balancing issues that are extremely hard to diagnose (DLC units have to be overpowered to compete with existing lord abilities, AI is given lazy buffs so they can compete at higher difficulties, etc).

See I actually like this philosophy quite a bit when it comes to fantasy settings. In historical ones, at best it looks silly. At worst, the design issues become impossible to ignore since you can't hide behind the fictional setting to justify them.

Mesopotamia

Fuckton of pre-made tools available for purchase save you a shitton of work these days, so making an impressive looking engine demo is usually actually really easy. Remember that "Nintendo hire this man" meme that keeps popping up?

Historical Total War games and Autists were a perfect match made in heaven.
They changed to a fantasy setting, multiplied their sales and player base by 1000.
They got a new fanbase, which is now the majority.
Historical fags are mad, because the games that once belonged to them, are now in new setting, which does not appeal to them

Based and Cannaepilled

Attached: Battle of Cannae.webm (854x480, 1.4M)

pls respond

really? that sounds awesome. i never played chink total war though. yes that is exactly what Warhammer needs i doubt they would be able to implement it properly at this point though, when they try to add features they just staple on a popup window in their ugly ui. Warhammer was dead when I saw units variants with (Shields) instead of making their equipment customizable

what's pic relateds reference? it seems familiar

carribbean sea during the pirate high
african warlords
american civil war

Don't remember a thing from history classes anymore, but how couldn't the red guys see what's happening? Like, that blue detachment was right there, why did they ignore it?
I really need to read all that shit again, looks fun. Especially with all those videos and such - wish we'd had it back in the days.

I hate Mongols.

That's okay, Ivan. They're gone now.

cav, also romans got shit cav

Shogun 2 is literally the second best TW and you're a retard for missing it.

Communication was really hard back in the day. Getting the messages to the right person at the right time.

t. Chinese

Rome 2 shit the bed, but warhammer just killed it completely.

FUCK you warhammer fanboy faggots.

I had faith that CA was going to improve their games after launch, as usual, maybe go back to better old design choices.

BUT NO. You fantasy faggots got a shit sandwich and went with it. CA realized they could just sell to chinks and low IQ newfag fantasy fanboys instead of fixing anything and killed the whole goddam series.

google crowd of 80 thousand people

then play as chinks and murder them

Seeing it is irrelevant if you can't do anything about it. I'm not familiar with this particular battle but I'm going to assume that the two blue units that move to the bottom right, and the other two that go to the bottom left in that webm are light cavalry. If you have a sizable cavalry advantage the battle is already half won. Part of this comes from the fact that cavalry with a competent commander can operate somewhat independently due to the fact that they have a better ability to survey the battlefield with their own scouts, which also allows them to take opportunities that purely infantry forces would hesitate to commit to due to a lack of information.

of course, they put too much money into AoS already.
But most of the minis released for AoS for the last 1.5-2 years can be backported into Warhammer Fantasy

When the missile trails became 25pixels wide.

>game is called Warhammer Fantasy Battles
>it's not about realism

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> reading comprehension

That's what the post is saying.

You are completely incorrect. Individual models have individual health which is then summed and reported as a single number for the UI only. You can have extremely low health units still with high model counts, or very few models remaining but all with full individual HP. This is a very known thing. It's a huge deal in multiplayer.

unreal engine.
Honestly, CA should ditch warscape

Why do people whine about missile trails in TWWH so much? You can literally just turn them off it you don't like them.

Middle age Empires of southeast asia; Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and Vietnam.

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>Fantasy Total War Empire
I really want to see Napoleon riding a hippogriff. I really do.

Actual autism. I don't think it even occurs to them that it's exclusively to make it really clear to the player what's happening and not supposed to be a "cool visual effect realism dood!".

Mahabharata. I can't go back to historicals anymore.

>He doesn't play the empire in Warhammer as a fraction in Empire total war

How was this documented? Was some guy sitting on a mountain observing it?

impressive levels of dumdumb my dude

I’ve played every TW except Troy and ToB. Warhammer is tied for the best one along with FotS.
Rome 1 was good for its day but the AI was truly atrocious and it aged like milk as a result.

How is it dumb asking how those battles were accurately documented?

Then those autists should play actually historical games instead of Total War which has always treated history as set dressing

>implying the AI in new TW games is good

Because they’re histcucks and while bitch about everything to cope

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It's not full retard if it makes money.

Better than the garbage that plagued the franchise from Rome 1 to Empire. Shogun 1 and Medieval 1 are unironically more playable these days than those 3 games because of it.

they decided to go full retard and pull 6 gorillion warhammer/40k games, a franchise ONLY TURBOAUTISTS AND HOPELESS VIRGINS give a fuck about. The last playable total war game was fucking Napoleon

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All history is muddled with conflicting accounts, but there were plenty of survivors and archaeological evidence to support/contradict their testimonies.

It's a suboptimal way to convey the information since it can potentially obscure the finer details going on in the background. I'm personally 100% okay with the missile trails, but it's a basic UI design issue. What's the right balance between clarity and clutter? I don't blame anyone for having different priorities than I do.

>since it can potentially obscure the finer details going on in the background
So literally just turn them off.

if you limit your market to a fraction of what it could be you eventually wear them out and end up empty handed
that's exactly what's happening with total war today

I don't turn them off because I don't mind the missile trails. If people want better ways to convey the same information, that's on them. People aren't wrong just because they think something can be done better.

Fuck Total War, now what happened to Alien Isolation sequel?

>ONLY TURBOAUTISTS AND HOPELESS VIRGINS give a fuck about
Those would be the historical settings. Most of the TWW fans knew very little about Warhammer Fantasy before playing those games, but lot of people like fantasy settings.
My evidence is how many fucking times I had to explain to newfags that GW killed WFB and replaced it with Shitmar.

Journoniggers and dumbcucks complained about it being "too long :( " so much it killed the project.

Warhammer has only expanded their market. The historical games were the niche ones few cared about.

Arch (warhammer) warned you, rn they just want your money and since warhammer and total war fans are drones they just took advantage

I think he was referring to Troy's extremely lukewarm reception.

>ITT: Histfag seethe

> CAdrones sneed and feed?

"I WILL NEVER HAVE SEX IN MY ENTIRE LIFE"
that's how these posts read out
the only thing worse than a turboautist is an UNAWARE turboautist
look don't worry guys, I know I'm on the losing side. I'm sure CA has a million WH/40k games ready to release all they way to their grave

I think the issue is that if you limit your market share to a preexisting franchise that you're borrowing from another company, it can potentially place you in a precarious situation. The moment the bean counters at GW (mistakenly) believe that they can do better with a different developer, CA's going to be too brittle to pivot back to historical games without taking massive financial losses.

I'd feel more optimistic if CA actually owned the Warhammer license.

they thought they were about to break the line and committed even harder. What you're not seeing on these maps is the fog of war by terrain and distance. A good commander would have assumed Hannibal's tactic, but he couldn't have known for sure

hello volound
how's your youtube "career"?

Seeing Pixellated Apollo take his side was pretty eye-opening. Also, good on Legend for apologizing.

cope

to be honest arrows were overpowred and cringe

At some point they stopped being games about strategy and military tactics and became just another shitty micro-fest like every other big strategy game. Warhammer is fun but the core mechanics are so unbelievably bad compared to rome/med2/shogun

What happened?

They’ve never been games about military strategy and tactics

I swear half the history fanbase are poor eastern europeans anyway.

yes im sure they are wringing their hands worrying about their incredible success.

Rope a dope

Volound's a controversial e-celeb who's constantly hypercritical of Total War games (which I don't mind, since everyone is entitled to their opinions). He got "cancelled" after completely false allegations that he bullied someone who was mentally ill and got dog-piled by a lot of other e-celebs. LegendOfTotalWar later apologized and Pixellated Apollo decided to stop streaming recent Total War games out of disgust (still makes vids on the older ones).

I'm not going to pretend like I agree with everything Volound says, but the guy has a right to complain about whatever he wants.

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>to be honest arrows were overpowred and cringe
t. Crassus

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>20 years later
>we're still just moving around 20 blocks of 200-ish men
CA needs actual competition if they're ever going to innovate.

CA found its GTA V

I mean he gets fuck all views anyway

Arrows are fine. They just feel annoying when the missile trails start to take up 25% of the screen.

Doesn't contradict my earlier point.

>redditors fling shit at other redditors because they can’t stop being virtue signaling white knights for 5 minutes
Sounds about right

I'm ready for some great naval battles.

>lots of potential
if being conquered by the United Provinces and enslaved to produce tea for the home theatre means having potential , then yes, potential

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hi volound
what did you mean by this?
>I'm a trailblazing gameplay purist that's not happy unless I'm breaking new ground - deep-diving untapped possibility spaces. I did perfect full runs (longplays) of games and built my reputation for being uniquely hardcore with those. I then began focusing entirely on making emergence-discovering skillshows with Dishonored and largely spawned the immersive sim skiller movement. I'm currently back to mastering complex strategy games like Total War and pushing their systems to the limit.
>I like facing the greatest possible challenges, head-on. I'm outcome-oriented and I play to get results. I'm obsessed with efficiency. I'm a minmaxing perfectionist. I'm a high-concept, low-profile, medium-range ballistic missionary; A street-wise smart bomb; A top-gun bottom feeder. I wear power ties; I tell power lies; I take power naps and I run victory laps.

your point is basically that they are taking a risk. my point is that that risk has already paid off for them, so what the fuck are you on about?

Ironically, they did everything they could to accidentally make Volound look like a victim (which he pretty much was). It's just another reminder that you shouldn't instantly believe allegations just because they're targeted against someone you don't like.

Medieval 2 was the peak

Why are you guys so desperate for a new game? The older games are still perfectly playable and most of them have a shitload of mods to enhance your playthroughs.

Just finished another shogun2 campaign and it was just as good as I remembered.

We all know they would ruin Shogun 3 anyway

My point actually had nothing to do with taking a risk. I was just commenting on the other post that claimed that Warhammer is only for turboautists. He's dead wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that CA is fully committing to a single franchise for a license that they don't own.

I don't understand how you're misinterpreting a really simple statement that isn't controversial at all.

Why in God's name would you play VH/VH

holy shit you don't even understand what you're saying.

No way this is real. No one can be that narcissistic.

Are all CA-fanboys this mentally ill or is it just you? I mean, I enjoy Total Warhammer and I don't think I'm as fucked up as you are.

Don't worry. He got cancelled for molesting 40 children.

>complex strategy games like Total War
did he play Total War before writing this?

Total War: Dark Continent

if I could kill people irl without facing any real consequences they I would do it and not play games

imagine just sitting there while some horsefucker is peppering you for hours

What’s funny about all these dedicated Total War “content creators” is that they got fucked by Mandalore in the span of one video

>shitload of resources
Nah thanks

He's not even terribly good at the games but he can easily point out a laundry list of problems. At least CA fixes some of them out of sheer embarrassment.

>this is what Fantasyfags believe in

I played Rome 2 and I indeed know what you're talking about. It felt like some strange forcefield around each unit. It was changed in Warhammer, thankfully

This, FOtS showed that modern gunline combat could work and be amazing, TWW has fully functioning vehicles for tanks. All they need to pull of WW1 is a revamped cover system and a campaign gimic.

Doubt it, I think they'll skip over empire and do a vicky first. But Medieval got copyrighted recently, and it'll be medieval. I hope you are ready for:

>Reconquista DLC race pack
>Italian city states DLC race pack
>Eastern European race pack
>HRE race Pack (one of the HRE will be playable at the start)
>Muslims Race pack
>Africa race pack (Ethiopia/Makuria/Mali)
>Steppes DLC pack
>Celts DLC pack
>Norse DLC pack
>Timeline adjustment DLC pack

Units in Warhammer still feel weightless, especially cavalry which are a complete joke.

That's nice, I thought about that too, one of the further reason why fighting on a slope should be disadvantageous is that you have more trouble backing down than the enemy has going forward.

I hope we'll get Hitler Legendary Lord

Sometimes they do, true. Also depends on which cavalry is doing the charging. Still a whole lot better than in Rome 2

Going from cav in rome/shogun to Bretonnia in Warhammer was a real slap in the face. It seems that your units only get any real weight when you stack the shit out of bonuses and magic boosts.

They need to rethink of cavalry should work.

Also guys need to be able to be thrown to the ground and not tossed. So cavalry can trample models to damage them.

>mfw I take a city just by using my armstrong guns and naval bombardment

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don't forget you have to pay for blood textures too

>cavalry charges into a group of melee infantry
>half the unit gets knocked down which just means they're immune to damage as they stand up
i agree getting tossed is not good for cavalry at all.

Spearmanii can attack the monster instantly and with a long reach with their spear, lots of damage done to both sides.

>But Medieval got copyrighted recently
Did it? Oh god oh fuck.

Tie the enemy down with your Ashigaru, call in the naval artillery on top of them.

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>However, it MUST be a setting the series has not done before.
Crimean War: A Total War Saga

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Missiles need to be faster, especially gun missiles.

ITT: History fags seething forever. Nobody wants to play your dinosaur shit of sweaty retards poking eachother with spears.

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Thrones of Britannia is hated because not even the Eternal Anglo can pretend to be interested in the tic-tac-toe of Total War series. There's literally no unit/faction variety (in gameplay terms) and a tiny map.

Yes, many anons were begging for a more "focused experience" but once they got it, they realized it was shit! Okay, some thing like armies being mustered over time was neat but you can't hold people with a single neat idea.

It got good when it went to fantasy.
It'll get even better when it gets to 40k.

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>Nobody wants to play your dinosaur shit of sweaty retards poking eachother with spears.
but I love lizardmen

>letting one of your cohort be 1v1 to death on your flank, thus exposing your rear to a triumphant enemy
What the absolute fuck? Did Carthage cast Greater Fog of War?

> most of the minis released for AoS for the last 1.5-2 years can be backported into Warhammer Fantasy
also sharing some factions (deamons, ChoW, ogers, lizardman, skaven) which makes me wonder how the fuck is this supposed to be FW project with their prices?

I stopped going to /twg/ when they started posting furry porn and unironically defending it.

Repanse.

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Blame Grouchy.

except after 3k /twg/ is still Franz

Rome always had very small units of cavalry (made up of richfags who could afford a horse) compared to their infantry, which is why Rome later on preferred to hire auxilia cav (gallic, germanic, numidian...) instead of using their own native cavalry.

One of the consuls leading the army died in that fight and nobody ordered the infantry to support.

As a joke character.

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roman cav sucked up until they started using non romans. It was literally expected that the cav would lose and run away

>send infantry on the right
>it didn't work
>send calvalry up the left
>it didn't work
>send more infantry up the middle
>stil didn't work
>better retreat honhonhon

Can't see why everyone thought Napoleon was a military genius. If he just send everything at once in a mad rush it probably would have worked.

>Yes, many anons were begging for a more "focused experience"
No, they weren't. We want medieval 3.

>but how couldn't the red guys see what's happening?
pic related is what the average infantryman would be seeing.

youtube.com/watch?v=VUQ37QBrRtI

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>00:00: PHARNACES_GONZALES_0048 Has joined the match.
>00:01: Ez
>00:03: PHARNACES_GONZALES_0048 Has left the game: You win!

3d models are purchased

I used to love playing MTW1
the world map was quick and easy, like playing risk.

No, it's because nobody gives a fuck about what happened in England in the time between being abandoned by Rome and William the Conqueror becoming king except Anglos. In most history classes vikings get a brief mention and England is just a part of the bigger picture there.

>mfw empire 2 had a race to Africa map

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theres actually a mod that specifically fixes this steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1448531545good

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He’s also the go to Frenchmen for video games

>underarm spears
kek

sorry

I’d rather they have another fantasy game that isn’t Warhammer

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This mod is hilariously bad

You're right and he's a numpty, but it's worth remembering Hanny ball deliberately picked the centre to be his most hardened troops so they didn't just completely fold.

Also Romans are shit as soon as you refuse to fight them on a tabletop because they're too autistic for hilly maps or forests. Even the Comitatenses of the late era would throw a fit if they had to look slightly up or down while fighting.

And by that point, the other had also vacated the field chasing down some """""running""" Cav.

Also like a 10th of Rome's population died here, on top of the tons they'd lost earlier. They really were getting dunked up until Carthage wussed out, we could all be Punicaboos if things had swung differently.

play shogun 1 now

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At least they put effort into it. More than other mods

>When your country's only chance of victory in 18th century was to run closer than anyone else typically did before releasing a rifle volley and replacing 1/3 of riflemen with charging spears which were used to break enemy formation and morale in the initial charge which then spearheaded the victory
>Failing this it's usually an automatic loss because everyone we fought were at least 3:1 in manpower and the drawn out slog was not in our favor
Later everyone adapted new strats and we were fucked trying shit like that.

𒁀 𒈻

replace franz with furfaggotry

if you cant fueld thousands of units whats the point?

/twg/ is just warhammer only general now. Plus it’s infected with ratfags

I will never understand Skavenfags. I can understand liking a bunch of cartoon villain rats, but the degree that Skavenfags go is nearly aa disgusting as the Skaven themselves.

The Skavenfags that shitpost in /twg/ are unironic, literal furries. Don't you dare speak out about it though or they'll descend on whatever thread you happen to find yourself in and shitpost cropped skaven porn until the bump limit. Because you know, they totally aren't furries.

retard

Don't forget 50% of your generals being women, also.

Its a pretty birb though

let me guess
sweden

Is Age of Shitmar actually doing better than Fantasy Battles when they killed it?

maybe
it have smaller scale battles with less models so lower point of entry
gw is literally too greedy to successfully sell their merchandise

>he thinks guns fired so slowly that mass charges work
T. average french general from the time guns were invented until post ww2

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I wish it would let us play as minor factions

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Mods will set you free!

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game?

I'm going to correct this user. There are a few of them that are furries, but a lot of them just ironically ratpost because it gets seething retard responses like this where some autist will make posts complaining about five threads back where one person posted a bara Queek fanart while claiming "porn has no place here". Never mind non-stop Morathi/Alarielle/Katarin porn for the past month, that gets total silence. Post a rat and some person loses their fucking mind and cannot help themselves shitting blood for hours trying to "remove" the Skavenposters.

>How dare you talk bad about my gay furry art while a bunch of art about non-furry women isn't complained about
Shut the fuck up, furry.

Is this bait?

I fucking wish /twg/ was full of Lady Lu/Lu Lingqi posts. Fuck ratfags.

Manor Lords, still has been released yet: youtu.be/KvRHIvAxZoE

I don't like porn spam in the general at all, because it just encourages more retard coomer induction in a strategy game general. I also don't like furshit because furries feeling at home in any place is bad. My point is you post furshit in a thread and retards (most likely you) will have conniption fits, and if I wanted to shitpost on a regular basis for free (you)'s, I would do that incessantly.

>Play TW Rome 2
>Cool setting, neat postGreek countries to play
>ABOSULTE AIDS FOR USER INTERFACE
unplayable

It stopped being about human history.

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I stopped going to /twg/ more than a year ago because of disingenuous furry scum like you.

i want a total war set during the thirty years' war desu

What are you schizos talking about? I just checked the last two generals and there hasn't been any furfag images in over 1000 posts

thats because thanquol and his fuckbois all got banned two days ago

Most of the anti-ratfag posters are seething that any Skaven content is posted whatsoever and reference one or two pictures several threads down the pipe as justification for their schizophrenia.

Here we fucking go again, you subhumans are insufferable.